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Marine Ornamental Fish & Invertebrate Breeders • View topic - The proposal to list Bangaii cardinals into CITES II

The proposal to list Bangaii cardinals into CITES II

The proposal to list Bangaii cardinals into CITES II

Postby DrHsu » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:02 am

As you all know, the Bangaii Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) has been proposed to be listed into Appendix II of CITES. The proposing country is the USA, which is generally unusual as the US is not a range state of the species. However, the general concensus and recommendations seems to be that it will be approved and Bangaiis will be listed after this year's Convention of the Parties in June at The Hague, Netherlands.

This is the full text of the proposal

Interesting comments from CITES secretariat (see page 24 of ) however, and perhaps Indonesia might object??? Sometimes things can be more political than they should.....
Li Chieh

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Postby FuEl » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:49 pm

I love Artemac!
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Postby vaporize » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:02 am

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Postby DrHsu » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:32 am

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Postby FMarini » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:42 pm

Hi Li-
Yes the USA is the proposing country. Why-because Alex Vagelli from New Jersey State Aquarium did all the census for the past 6 yrs, and has painstakenly recorded the rapid decline of this fish. Alex is currently over in Banggai now, to try and get the Local govt onboard w/ the proposal, as well as conduct a final census. However the data is very strong.
As you know Gerald allen proposed this idea in 2001, but w/o any repeate Census to back up his claim, so it was dropped then.
When this proposal passes in June of this year (and I know it will) you can thank Alex for all his hard work. The CITE restriction should go into effect by years end.

The hope is that the local govt will allow the formation of lagoon sancutarys to allow reproduction of this fish undisturbed.
Thanks for posting this info
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Postby mpedersen » Thu May 31, 2007 1:40 pm

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Postby DrHsu » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:22 pm

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Re:

Postby mpedersen » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:53 pm

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Postby DrHsu » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:51 pm

Matt,

I think shouldn't be too quick to criticise the withdrawal. This is only a report of the discussion and is not in-depth enough to make conclusions as to the validity of the opposing arguments.

For myself, the fact that the US voluntarily withdrew the proposal says a lot - the US never backs down on alot of issues, even when they are wrong. I think there is more to it than what we know so far, and if I am able to get some more insights, I will let you guys know.

FWIW, there is also the FAO expert panel's recommendations to oppose the listing - that one would be interesting to read. I'll look for it.
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Postby DrHsu » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:24 pm

Here is the . The relevant pages are on pages 100-108 on the PDF.

Interesting reading.....many might be interested to learn the wholesale cost to importers! (somewhere near the end - happy hunting..)
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Postby BaboonScience » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:29 pm

On the other hand, if the research is correct, overfishing could indeed decimate the wild stock.
Captive bred would then be the only option.
How much would they then be worth?
A good news / bad news scenario?
"The exact contrary of what is generally believed is often the truth" Jean De La Bruyère (1645-1696)
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Postby Colby » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:09 am

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Postby KathyL » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:59 am

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Postby DrHsu » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:18 pm

Some additional snippets:

Regarding "legality": The researcher entered Indonesia under a social visit visa. Special visas are required for scientific work in many countries and Indonesia is one of them. This was one objection by the Indonesians.

Species management and conservation plans are in place in Indonesia. This differs from the statement in the proposal that there is no species management plan.

Apparently the 2004 survey of 7 sites was done in 28 days - a pretty short time frame for a major survey.

Due to the numerous objections by many countries, the US had no choice but to withdraw the proposal.


(My personal view): Looking at the FAO panel's recommendations, it would seem that there are some fundamental assumptions that may be in error, and the math doesn't seem right. A pretty compelling argument if you go by the "facts" and figures, but maybe fundamentally flawed....

Also, I think the fact that there are villages that understood the perils of overfishing and VOLUNTARILY banned bangaii fishing is a good thing - the local villagers are beginning to understand the concept of sustainable use.

Knowing that the Indonesian govt is also stepping in with species management plans is also a positive.

The high recovery rate once protected is also good - shows that bangaiis are a resilient species and can be sustainably harvested.

In any case, it still shouldn't stop us from breeding bangaiis....just that you may not be able to get the high price that was hoped for!
Li Chieh

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Re:

Postby mpedersen » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:30 am

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Postby mpedersen » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:34 pm

http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=266 - See Alex's post - it's pretty hard to miss.

Matt
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Postby avagelli » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:39 pm

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Postby DrHsu » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:59 am

Li Chieh

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Postby DrHsu » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:10 am

Li Chieh

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Postby KathyL » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:13 am

OK, very interesting and convincing. I am personally going to look into getting a pair of tank raised breeders. Perhaps I can keep the market closed to wild caught in my little corner of the world.
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Postby chaz » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:33 pm

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Re:

Postby avagelli » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:13 pm

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Postby DrHsu » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:55 am

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Postby avagelli » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:10 am

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Re: Bangaii Cardinalfish listed on IUCN Red List

Postby mpedersen » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:47 am

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