ONYX BABIES ON THE WAY (LIST)

[seamunchies]

I am making a list of people who are interested in putting there name on a list for onyx babies they will be 25 a piece and 50 for the pair whoever wants to just post and ill add you thanks heres MOM and DAD

[seamunchies]

To administration i hope this thread is ok here if not please put it where it should be im not selling yet im just making a list of people who want some but if changes are needed i understand

[doa247]

put me down for 1

[acroporas]

How old are the babies now? How old will they be when you ship them? Do you have any pictures of them?

[seamunchies]

this thread is for the purpose of allowing people to claim a spot in buying these fish when they are ready she is going on her 3rd batch the first one was minimal and the second one has just hatched 3 days ago and she is laying tomorrow or tonight. When they are ready which will be 2 to four months of age i will release them early to those who want them and are on my pm list. Im doing this because i have allot of people who want them and i cant keep track so the list will allow me to see who wants to have some thank you and pix of them its to early i will post the metamorphasis pix and there process.

[acroporas]

Are your shift and . keys broken? It is really difficult to understand your post without any punctuation or capitalization.

To make sure I understood that correctly. The fish in question hatched 3 days ago, and you are planning on selling them in 2 months. And you can't post pictures because this is the first batch and they are only 3 days old.

Are the parents wild caught, or of a special lineage? I am very curious why you think there is going to be such huge demand for such tiny fish at that price. Your price is not unreasonable for a retail sized fish,but considering that you can get full sized adult WC perculas for the same price, your price seems a bit steep for microscopic fish of unknown lineage.

The parents are very nice looking, but it is not uncommon for the offspring of onyx percs, to never turn black, or if they do, to take years. At 2 months they would be what, at most 1/2" long, have one stripe and no black. Unless you have some reason to believe that a high percent will blacken up by either pictures of older siblings(which you apparently don't have), or a claim of pedigree, I don't understand why people would be so excited about fish that have yet to show any (special)color.

You can put me on your list to call once the fish are fully striped and are showing a good deal of black.

[KathyL]

this thread is for the purpose of allowing people to claim a spot ... Im doing this because i have allot of people who want them and i cant keep track so the list will allow me to see who wants to have some thank you and pix of them its to early i will post the metamorphasis pix and there process.

I don't understand. You already have a lot of people who want them, you can't keep track of those people, and you are now asking for yet another list of people who want them? How is this going to help you? You already have a lot of people interested in your potential fish. What is it you want?

[doa247]

I got a question? Why are you guys bashing this guy so much he's just trying to offer his goods in the forum? If he's not legit I can understand the problem but he's promised pictures when the stock gets older.

Valid point from acroporas though It would be nice to know the lineage? If there were previous batches of the fish that have shown the dark onyx coloring? Seamunchies if I do buy from you, I would want an older fish showing the onyx color.

V/R

[Spracklcat]

Valid point from acroporas though It would be nice to know the lineage? If there were previous batches of the fish that have shown the dark onyx coloring? Seamunchies if I do buy from you, I would want an older fish showing the onyx color.

V/R

And perhaps a photo that has a lot less Photoshopping done--it's difficult to see what the parents really look like when the photo has been altered so drastically.

[mpedersen]

And perhaps a photo that has a lot less Photoshopping done--it's difficult to see what the parents really look like when the photo has been altered so drastically.

I have to say, I personally don't see the "photoshopping" you're talking about. The coloration on the Terra Cotta is a bit ornage, but nothing major from real life. There's certainly a lot of JPG compression readily noticeable in the black areas of the fish and the black background, but that's just from compressing to put on the web. The contrast / levels may have been altered, but heck, every picture I take needs some adjustments straight out of the camera.

As far as the comments on items like price, again, those are legitimate questions, and on MOFIB, people are allowed to express their opinions. I personally would like to see pictures of the parents shown with a clutch of eggs. I'd also like to see the other side of the male...is he misbarred on one side, or both? When people buy my Onyx, they can come and see the parents in person if they like, and there's only one pair of Perculas in the entire place.

That said, I sell offspring from MY F0 Onyx Percs at 60-70 days of age for $20-$25 - at that age, some show their 2nd stripes, some don't. I don't guarantee that they'll color up as Onyx at that point, because as we're starting to realize it can take YEARS and it seems that the Onyx coloration has an epigenetic component to it (meaning that external factors may determine whether the black shows up or not, the genetics may only lay the foundation for the potential expression of the black). All of that is why fully colored Onyx often sell for $100 or more...because the seller has taken the months or years, of guessing and waiting, out of the equation. But, as you all know, I've even had fully colored mature onyx LOSE all their black, so even then, there are NO guarantees!

Seamunchies, I'd strongly suggest that you address people's questions and perhaps post the details you sent privately to me. Your intial post mentions nothing of size, age, coloration, the fact that people will have to WAIT and how long that wait is (i.e. that these fish won't be ready for months, and as you should know, things could simply go wrong with a batch, it does happen). Your post only mentions "Onyx for $25".

Yes, people may be skeptical at this point because no one here on MOFIB has any experiences with purchasing anything from you (as far as I am aware). You're not providing crucial details, so people are asking for them. You have to earn people's trust, it's not just given freely as a general rule. So no one is slamming you, but they are practicing "buyer beware" and doing their due dilligence.

Just my personal $0.02, FWIW,

Matt

[Spracklcat]

Re: the photoshop: take a look particularly at the scond photograph, at the border between the white and black regions. There is a clear line of aqua blue, which I am assuming is not on the actual fish. This is a common artifact from overusing the "sharpen" tool. Also, it is possible to alter the fish without altering the background--and I agree, the terra cotta pot looks quite normal in color.

I use Photoshop very often in pictures for publication. It can be used for artistic effect, or it can be used to improve the quality of a photo--to intesify colors, to correct for a lack of white balance, to erase marks on the aquarium glass, etc. That would be a wonderful topic for the photography forum. However, it is my opinion that when one is trying to sell an object, be it a fish or an antique, to alter a photo to the point that you can't tell what the actual object looks like can be misleading. To make a perhaps silly point, suppose I bought a pair of these fish, and I were disappointed because I thought the fish would have a line of electric blue between the stripes? Clearly people know that these fish do not have this, but you can see that the line between "improved realistic photo" and "altered to the point of misrepresentation" is fine. Imagine if these were corals--

My preference is to err to the side of unaltered, and if I were interested in purchasing these fish or their offspring, I would want to see an undoctored photo.

[mpedersen]

Re: the photoshop: take a look particularly at the scond photograph, at the border between the white and black regions. There is a clear line of aqua blue, which I am assuming is not on the actual fish. This is a common artifact from overusing the "sharpen" tool.

Notice around the head of the fish in the third picture, the same blue but also green on the headstripe. I've seen that occur when shutter speeds are too low on a moving subject...an artifact created by the camera, not any photoshop (again, don't know what was, and what wasn't done to the photos above). Also could occur when bumping up the levels / contrast / brightness of a dim image. But yes, these fish likely don't have electric blue borders between the white and black portions.

And BTW, you're right. If these were corals, people would be bitchin' they didn't actually have that electric blue line

[doa247]

you guys are right,

Not to sound like an ass but those lines on the fish in the second and 3rd pic look like they have been altered Im no photoshop god myself but you might be right.

[acroporas]

The blue line you are seeing is not from over photoshopping, or from slow shutter speeds. It is chromatic aberration.

The fact that the artifacts are chromatic abberations is most obvious in the 3rd picture. Do you notices how on the right side the high contrast area shows a blue/cyan color shift. Now look at the left side of the bar. See the red/yellow shift. Exactly as you would expect from chromatic aberrations.

Basically, the different colors of light bend differently when the light passes from one medium to the next and strikes the interface at a non-perpendicular angle. The greater the angle, the more the light will bend, and the stronger color shift you will see. Areas of high contrast show this effect most, and an overexposed white stripe, next to an area of black is as much contrast as you can get which is why you see the effect so strongly along the edge of the stripe.

When photographing in the aquarium it is critical that the lens be pointing as close as possible to perpendicular to the glass to avoid chromatic abberation. I'm going to estimate that these pictures were taken at about a 45degree angle to the glass which is why the chromatic aberration is so strong.

Yes the pictures are of pretty low quality,in addition to the chromatic abberation, they are very blurry, show lots of jpg artifacts, and are over sharpened. But to me at least the pictures do not look enhanced at all to me. I do not believe that seamuchies was trying to be misleading at all with those pictures. It looks like to me that he was doing the best he could. In fact, it would not surprise me at all if the only manipulation done on them was cropping.

Lets move on from the pictures, yea they suck, but they are good enough to judge what the fish look like. We just need more pictures, and some answers to the other questions people have asked.

[seamunchies]

Well where do I start? I will start with apologizing for my punctuation and spelling. First things first the male in the picture is misbar on both sides and i will repost pix of both. The male is from a pair of onyx that i have had for 4 years, and were originally bought from Morgan Lidster, who had aquired them from Bill Addison, so I was told. With that said the female is From Morgan Lidster as well, she came from his pair of onyx that he will never sell that are in his main display tank, and again this is what was said to me. As far as proving this coloration in these juveniles that i am attempting to grow i strongly believe there coloration will have the dominant black throughout. Rerading through everything that was said I am very open minded and i do understand your points things do happen and you cant be 100 percent sure that they will have the onyx coloration, but because of the genetic lines that these fish came from I think they will. Speaking with Morgan any many other Serious breeders they have agreed knowing where these fish have came from. Now on to my other point. You say that 25 and 50 for a pair, especially in 1/2 inch fish is to high i respect that, but what about Rod Bheuler who sells his for double that at 1/2 inch long how come he has hundreds of people begging for his fish? LFS stores in my are have recieved his fish at 3 months old with only a head stripe and selling them for 85 a piece like its candy. So his fish came from Morgan Lidster and he will say that himself and he has. I am not bringing Rod on the picture to start another topic but his product speaks for itslef and he has pictures of his grown juveniles to prove it and back him up. Now for the pictures with blue lines and green lines lol. I am very sorry I took the pix with this hp camera that is 8 mpg and i just bought a better one, but as you all know fish dont stand still. All i did to the pix was adjust the sharpening and contrast cuz they sucked lol They were taken with the light off thats why it is a bit dark and i apologize. Those are true colors i will take video if yall like with them with eggs. She is hydrated again and should be laying any day. I do not photoshop i am not a big camera person and i never will be so im sorry if it did not please everyone. My thoughts are what you have read and i will be posting pix of all the stages and i hope there is somewhat of an understanding. It is very difficult to get really nice onyx clowns and i personally think the parents are perfect. Coloration is amazing, pectoral structure, face structure etc are perfect and I am excited because they are my favorite ones. I think that everyone has the right for information on whatever it is they ask but I am not here to get rideculed either . I respect your thoughts and great questions but this is what I am doing. The list will still be here unless admin. wants it off if you wants clowns great if you dont somebody else will and id love to interact as much as I can. I will post pix this week with the parents and eggs. Oh and one more thing about what Kathy said about what it is I want. I have allot of people that know my fish and the amount of money i have spent on all the breeders I have. I only by the best quality and genes. To many people pm me about having anything for sale and i give my cell out and i love talking to them, I cant talk fish all day. I want to create a list of people who are interested whether its now or later in these clowns so i have a record of who to contact. And in the past i ran out and promised people some and they were upset, so thats why the list came to my mind. Thank you for your interests

[acroporas]

Thank you for answering my questions.

So the parents are from the seaquest line, and are silblings to robs famous fish. Yes, that expains a lot, and makes your price/age sound very reasonable. At that age Rods fish are beginning to show color, so there is a good chance your's will be as well.

I would love to be on your list.

[seamunchies]

Sounds good i put you on and i hope i answered some questions. She is about to explode i will post pix tonight.

[seamunchies]

[seamunchies]

video is downloading as I am typing the will not stay still im lucky i got those pix he was attacking the glass lol

[seamunchies]

These pictures were taken with no flash and a diff camera that sucks just as bad

[seamunchies]

[seamunchies]

ok here ya go they just layed when i got home i missed it once again great cluth

[doa247]

Nice Nice

[mpedersen]

Nice Nest Seamunchies!

[sunce_22]

Are you willing to ship them to Vancouver Canada?