Oxymonacanthus longirostris - BREEDING LOG (Survival log)

[mpedersen]

Yeah, lets call it what it is, this was basically a rescue. A local shop brought in three Orange Spotted Filefish (Oxymonacanthus longirostris, aka. Harlequin Filefish or Longnosed Filefish). One was certainly a male, one female, and one in between.

More to come...

[joefrith]

Haha, well if anybody can do it, its you matt. I've heard that packing bits of Mysis or other food into the pores of an acro skeleton may work. Good luck Would love to see some pics of these beauties too.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Matt,

we have several long term survival records here in my part of the world, but all only in large tanks (+ 300g) with intense Acropora corals. In these tanks the fish can not harm the corals to much. Although they do it frozen or live mysid shrimps they seem to need the SPS coral polyps to survive. I am affraid in your rather small tanks this will not be working unless you can provide a steady flow of Acropora corals

[coralhead317]

Matt I saw your post in the marketplace for "browned out" acropora which I think is a great idea for keeping this fish alive. You might try to make some contacts in frags.org to find fraggers who have a bunch of these.

Also, I wonder if there is a way to make mysis (or other food) mashed onto coral skeletons more nutritious for these fish (as Peter indicated that there is something nutritionally different between coral polyps and other foods). It might be the presence of xooxanthellae in the coral tissue that this fish need to survive. I believe that Algaegen cultures a xooxanthellae as I think they claim to have a xooxanthellae as a component of their Phycopure product. Perhaps you could soak or inject your food items with this algae? I realize that it is a ton of work, but without a 300 gallon tank stocked full of acropora this type of supplimentation might be needed.

Just a thought. Good luck.

John

[mpedersen]

Thanks for all the comments thus far - let me catch you all up on where we are.

1-26-08

So, I see these fish at an area shop on Thursday, 1-24. I ask the kid at the shop if they are eating, he says "I don't know, I'll know in an hour and a half when I feed them...". UM...thanks for the smartass answer. he does mention that the fish only arrived the day before (1-23). I don't really remember the exact details, but I vaguely recall how to sex them. I *think* there are 2 females and 1 male.

So, I come home, and look up the sexing information and post it here - http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1913 I put out feelers on the local club forums to see if there are local folks willing to help supply "Feeder" acroporas so I can maintain these fish - surprsingly I get a good response of people willing to help out. I call the shop on Friday, 1-25, and ask if the filefish are still there. The kid that answers and looks says they only have ONE.

I had written them off, and was out with Renee driving around, making our tour of area shops, just to get out of the house this winter. Well, I decided I might as well go drive over the shop that had these, and sure enough, all three Orangespots are still there. Now, we ARE talking about a fish that's basically the equivalent of "cut flowers" in the hobby (don't remember who said that, but someone termed all the coral eating fish as such)...

I ask the kids in the shop if they are eating, the kid says "Oh yeah, they're eating MYSIS".

"Sure", I think to myself. I request to see them fed. They begrudgingly oblige, and sure enough, they have ZERO interest in mysis. I ask if they have any live brine....."nope".

I mull this one over. I'm not optimistic - I give these guys 25% odds at survival at best. It is rumored to happen once in a while, and I'm willing to do what it takes. The kid suggests I wait and see if they're still there next week...that's when I know they are doomed to die at the shop, or in the tank of some unsuspecting hobbyist, if I don't intervene.

Now, I'm up for a challenge, and I'm prepared to at least TRY some unorthodox things to see if I can't get this male & female to survive (did I mention that it turned out that they had 2 males, both looking OK, and that the lone female also happened to be the emaciated specimen?).

Brought the fish home, put the female in a breeder net with a clown and 2 Tiger Shrimp (like peppermints). The male gets the run of the tank (they are in the former seahorse tank with the fire clowns, bangaiis, blue bar psuedos and Psychodelic Mandarins (S. picturatus). I picked up some live adult brine, and we offer it to both before heading out for our evening plans. I also offered the female a Digitata frag and a Monti confusa-type frag. She nipped a few times at the Digitata and killed, but did not eat, an adult live brine shrimp. The male showed interest in teh live brine, but that's about it... That wraps up 1-26!

[mpedersen]

1-27-08

So today I've simply thrown the gamut of food at them. The male continues to mostly fight with his reflection, although he nipped at something in the substrate. He's surely interested by live adult brine, but I havent' seen him eat.

The FEMALE has been offered a buffet including frozen mysis and frozen brine, live adult brine, live brine shrimp nauplii, half a gallon's worth of adult and juvie Tiggerpods. In addition, both the Orange Digitata frag AND the Monti-confusa (aka. LUMP) frag were sitting there wtih full polyp extension...I don't think she's touching them. I added in a frag of Acropora (a tricolor type I had that's been brown since I added it to my tank) and a Ponape Birdsnest frag. Haven't noticed any interest. I did see her attack and kill, but not eat, an adult brine shrimp.

The male continues to occasionally nip at the substrate, and this time I think I saw what he was nipping at - a single polyp of Xenia. I loked at my tank, which is covered in Xenia, and had an idea. Took out a nice small stalk of Xenia and threw it in with the female. It only took her a couple moments to start nipping it. I threw down a frag of Xenia where the male is hanging out - I don't think he's even noticed it yet.

And that'll bring you all up to speed on where I am less than 24 hours in. I'm starting to reach out to those folks who volunteered up browned out or fragged acros to try as food...that IS what they are supposed to eat afterall..we'll see...

Matt

[mpedersen]

Here's pictures of the female:





Here's pictures of the male (editorial NOTE by MP - I later figured out that the fish below is actually a female variant):

[aomont]

Matt, this is a gorgeous species each pic I see is sort of amazing. The shape the colors... just gorgeous. The girl looks very thin though. Hope they eat something !
Anderson.

[mpedersen]

I was generally given at least 12 inches (25 cm) worth of "Green Slimer" Frags (Acropora youngei?) by a local aquarist this evening. I've offered a few of the pieces to the Filefish, and am holding the rest in reserve for the moment. The male is looking and I've seen him take at least one nip...not sure how their coral feeding really works, so not sure what to expect to see if they are actually feeding on the coral frags or not...

Matt

[acroporas]

I won one of these fish in a drawing at an aquarium club meeting a few years ago. I put it in a 20H packed with acro's. It lasted 2 months.

[mpedersen]

I won one of these fish in a drawing at an aquarium club meeting a few years ago. I put it in a 20H packed with acro's. It lasted 2 months.

I think Acros are certainly not going to be the key to long term survival - for me, Acropora frags and colonies as food are purely supplemental. The fish are going to have to learn to at least accept live brine...after that, in my book, it's only a matter of time.

The notion that Zooxanthellae are a dietary must seems plausible but not probable - more likely, simply the inclusion of standard vegetable-based foods would supply what they need (i.e. Spirulna enriched brine??). I hope to find more out about their preference of Acropora species, if there is one. Of course, I think these are touchy fish anyway...certainly as docile in feeding as Seahorses, if not even more so...

HMM.

Matt

[mpedersen]

Just doing my ongoing research and found this mention from an importer in Canada suggesting that those fish shipped from Vanuatu are feeding on frozen foods, whereas other locations, no luck

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showth ... p?p=265943

Also two mentions of people simply letting these guys have run of the reef, making no huge impact on the SPS populations..

http://www.greghiller.com/

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/totm/index.php


FWIW,

Matt

[vaporize]

Just doing my ongoing research and found this mention from an importer in Canada suggesting that those fish shipped from Vanuatu are feeding on frozen foods, whereas other locations, no luck

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showth ... p?p=265943

I would not believe anything any "Big Al's" employee said, they are like the Petcos in US; most of their more experienced employees moved off to own their own stores

[mpedersen]

Sad news, although not surprised by this one - the female died around 9 PM tonight. Male is still around, but getting noticeably thinner and has yet to attempt to eat anything...

Matt

[DrHsu]

A mate of mine picked up a pellet eating one from a LFS a few years ago. The feeding for this particular individual wasn't a problem - it was it's aggressiveness that was! IIRC it continually harrassed the gobies in the tank. Not sure what happened to it in the end - have to check....

[mpedersen]

I don't know what I did, but I just looked over the tank and there is the male chomping away on all the Acropora "Green Slimer" frags. I saw him nip once at the Orange Digitata frag, and a couple times on the "Tricolor" Acropora frag, and right now he's nipping at the Monit "Lump" frag. Looks like something just "kicked in" for him!

Matt

[mpedersen]

Video from 1-29-08

The male Filefish, chowing down on various SPS frags:

[youtube]MxhZLur9PyE[/youtube]

Matt

[aomont]

It seems like he can´t get enough ! How does the corals look after the meal ?
Anderson.

[mpedersen]

Well here's the deal. I don't know if I mentioned it here, but I took the Digitata frag out of the tank and placed it back in the SPS tank. I wanted to see if it had suffered any real damage from the Filefish's feeding behavior (this is the frag that the Filefish was munching on in the beginning of the vid).

So I'm going to post two pictures to prove my point - one was munched on for 24 hours, one wasn't. Don't cheat (i.e. don't look at the vid) - which frag was the one that the Filefish grazed on????



[/img]

[aomont]

I would vote for the second. What do I win ???
Anderson.

[aomont]

Looking again I doný know....
Anderson.

[mpedersen]

I would vote for the second.

Yup, Thanks Anderson for being my guinea pig and proving the point - you can't tell the difference between the unmolested frag and the one that filefish went to town on. Incidentally, those who guessed #2 both here and on uberfrags, you're WRONG (I guess that means the frag that the filefish ate actually looked to be in better condition than one that had never encountered the filefish???!)

Seriously, if a frag can be 'munched on' for 24 hours yet have all it's polyps and pretty much appear to be healthy, then what is the filefish actually eating / gaining from the coral? Obviously, at least to me, the filefish did not consume polyps, unless the coral healed itself just that fast???

This is very suspect in my book...makes me wonder if the filefish is not actually eating the tissue of the SPS corals, but perhaps feeding on coral parasites or the "polysaccharide mucus" that corals give off (afterall, polysaccharides are complex carbohydrates, so potentially plenty of energy stored there, right?)??? I wonder where the "proof is" that these are actually "coral feeders" in the sense we all think of them as being??? A little part of me is doubting the "coralivorous" nature of these fish after seeing it fail to eat the polyps that it was constantly nipping at.

I returned the Digitata frag to the tank now for another "feeding session"...the filefish took to it within minutes!

Matt

[mpedersen]

Well updates updates. I got home last night from a long trip around the western burbs...started off at Jason's Place ( www.yzreef.net ) - Jason gave me a slew of browned out frags to try out as "feeders" for the filefishes. There's a pale green Digitata, a brown "purple" digitata, a blue tip stag, another stag-type, multiple pieces of a tabling acro, a rounded-tip birdsnest, a monti confusa. Basically, a wide range of SPS to chose from! Considering that the male is starting to look a little thin, I'm hoping he finds something filling!

Which brings me to my 2nd stop - the shop that I got the files from. You all may remember that there were 3, and I took the best looking and the worst looking. Well, a week later, the one I left there was STILL there and here's the catch - it was EATING Rod's Food! I'm still not sure what sex this middle one is - at the shop it had a solid black ventral flap, but now here as soon as I put it in the tank it's orange like the existing male. Will this cause chaos?

This morning, the original male is just chowing down on ALL the frags I tossed in last night. The new one, male OR female, is trying to get in on the action and occasionally sneaks a bit or two, but the larger male sends the message that this is HIS coral patch.

I fed some Rod's food this morning and the new file did take a couple bits of food from the water column. I also offered up live brine, which the exisitng male FINALLY tried, although he did not eat it.

FWIW,

Matt

[joefrith]

Maybe its just a matter of time before they transition on to alternative foods. Atleast, thats how it was with my pipefish. It took about a month for them to accept mysis shrimp.

[mpedersen]

2-5-08

So the NEW female, yes, I think she is a she, as they are both getting along and hanging out together, the NEW female eats LIVE ADULT BRINE with gusto. Both continue to pick at the SPS frags in the tank, although I still cannot see any noticeable "feeding damage" on these corals. I'm stumped.

What I have noticed is that both of these filefish are eating HAIR ALGAE off the breeder basket holding our female Blue Bar Dottyback (Pseudochromis cyanotaenia). The female Filefish has a huge, fat belly, while the male is not putting on that type of weight, and both fish are still showing the "pinched nape" indicative of a fish having nutritional issues....