Marine Ornamental Fish & Invert Breeders Association

Good to hear your getting through some red tape mate, it will be great to see you rewarded by starting to export. I think I speak for more of us, when I say Id love to see more images! Im with DrHsu, shoot in a dark room, and focus on one individual. A tripod (or any solid/stable object nearby) will also help you take better images. I have an ordinary point and shoot, and all I do is darken the room, and take as many shots as the memory card will handle. Then I delete the bad shots, and if I get 3 or 4 from 120, im happy! Thats whats brilliant about digital!

Ryan,

good the know that you make progress! I truly hope that your efforts will be rewarded!

Thanks Peter , although at the moment it feels as though I have taken one step foreward just to have someone kick my feet out from underneath me .

Good to hear your getting through some red tape mate, it will be great to see you rewarded by starting to export. I think I speak for more of us, when I say Id love to see more images! Im with DrHsu, shoot in a dark room, and focus on one individual. A tripod (or any solid/stable object nearby) will also help you take better images. I have an ordinary point and shoot, and all I do is darken the room, and take as many shots as the memory card will handle. Then I delete the bad shots, and if I get 3 or 4 from 120, im happy! Thats whats brilliant about digital!

Thanks Ben. I also usually take a stack of pics and get left with a small number of exceptable ones. Sorry I haven't got around to taking more pics, I should know even without anyone saying anything everyone would probably like to see more pics but when no one comments I just get distracted by a stack of things and keep on putting it off for longer and longer. With so much going on I haven't even had a chance to pick up a blue background yet but I'll try and get to a LFS and pick one up over the next few days and organise some more pics within the week.

Ryan.

mrblue wrote:I am the only one that has them, I don't have a relative or a close friend who is set-up to keep some as back-ups. Christian suggested quite adamantly I needed to get some back-ups away from me, and up his way .

Ryan,

I'm sure there are plenty of locals that would be willing to assist
whereabouts are you anyway ?

Hi Paul,

To be honest CraigW(masa) is the only other local breeder I know about and sadly he got out of it a while ago. I am located in the Newcastle area.

Ryan.

Now I don't mean to offend, but I thought some folks might enjoy some Mc pics @ Lord Howe, they are awesome... http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... genumber=6

Btw, this isn't my thread, unfortunately.

Thanks for that Criccio, not sure why that would offend. I just wish my pics from the Island came out better. If they had I would have posted them a long time ago. Those pics off RC took me back though, such a lovely place. Hope I can go back some day and really appreciate it. BTW, those pics only show the tip of a very big iceberg. In some places there was just walls and walls of anemones, running along and in between beautiful rows of acro and Mcc's as far as the eye can see, you could not tell one pair from the next.

Ryan.

I finally took some more pics and they didn't turn out well. I've tried a number of different runs changing a few things and they don't seem to be coming out any better then last time. Even though I cleaned up yesterday for the shoot they are still very jumpy so it made it hard to get a lock on them. For cranky clowns they do seem quite jumpy at times. I suspect it is because they have been stuck together as a group for so long harassing each other. Anyone noticed this with other cranky clowns? There were a few interesting shots among the hundreds I took that I thought I might as well share.



It's very dark but this was the best close-up shot.



Face-off.



Even though the two species school together, when spooked (or at night) they separate off into two distinct groups. This kind of shows it.









Ryan.

Hey Ryan,

Have you heard anything about any Mc's migrating further north towrds PNG? I was talking to a well informed source, and he stated that some may have been found towards PNG, and that a "study" group was going out to determine exactly whose waters they are in, and what the cost would be to collect them. Maybe this is why they've been quoted here and there (although, like you, I have never heard of an actual sale of them). Interesting none-the-less.

Hi Criccio,

I have not heard about that. Sounds a bit odd though. According to a google search Lord Howe is like 3000km's or nearly 2000 miles from PNG, I would have though it was further. Lord Howe is like two thirds of the way down the coast of Australia, quite a distance even from QLD. Kind of a long journey for something with a couple week larval stage. I could be wrong but I was also under the impression that during the breeding season the currents traveled south past Lord Howe down towards Sydney and Victoria. I would have also have thought that if they could migrate they would start settling in the Solitaries, then QLD. Seems a big jump to go to direct PNG. Not saying it isn't true, fishy life surprises me every day, just seems a bit odd.

Ryan.

I know he said "towards" PNG, so I think that's what this study group is going to determine, if they are still AU waters or not. Who knows though, could just be a misid'd clown. I'll update if I hear anything else.

mrblue wrote:

mpedersen wrote:Ryan, I'm interested in hearing about the process you went through to obtain your original broodstock.
Matt

Hi Matt,
No problem at all. I did offer to fill in the details above, if people were interested but didn't really get a response. It seems as if the interest is here now . I'll see how I go filling in the details in the next few days with the latz thread going to. Ryan.

Well Ryan, just gonna ask again especially with Criccio's interesting PNG theory, and the other general murmurs about MCC's being around (never did hear more on that one Colby?).

Anyway, I'm sure it's at least a semi-intriguing story....

Matt

Pragmatic question.
When you get all your Permits, are they attached to you personally, or can you sell your business and they would go with the "Business" ??
Congratulatuins and thanx for sharing!

Well Ryan, just gonna ask again especially with Criccio's interesting PNG theory, and the other general murmurs about MCC's being around (never did hear more on that one Colby?).

Anyway, I'm sure it's at least a semi-intriguing story....

Matt

Damn, how did I miss this . Sorry about the lack of response Matt, not really sure how I missed your post but I just stumbled across it now. I had every intention of writing this up, although I don't know how interesting it is, well, at least after such a big build up. I even started doing it on the computer meaning to fill in a little bit here and there but didn't get past the first entry. I've got a lot going on at the moment because I'm in the next stage of fishy renovations but I'll try to start doing it over the next week and start posting after that. Should I start a new thread or just continue on from here? Sorry again.

Pragmatic question.
When you get all your Permits, are they attached to you personally, or can you sell your business and they would go with the "Business" ??
Congratulatuins and thanx for sharing!

To be honest I'm not sure off the top of my head, it's not something I have ever considered. While it's possible because my permits are licensed to my business and therefore if I sold my business they would go with it, but because of how I obtained my Mcc broodstock I can not legally sell them, so that makes it difficult. BTW, this is not something I would actually consider, I’ve put everything into this business and I want to see it through.

Ryan.

The Mccullochi Story.

Licensing

My Mcc journey started in the beginning of 2005. I had decided to try my hand at breeding marine fish and was trying to work out which species I would attempt. When reading through Joyce Wilkerson’s book a snippet of info and a picture of Mccullochi clownfish inspired me to look into the possibility of tracking down these fish. At the time I did not even have a clue how rare and expensive Mcc’s were, I was just keen to do something unique. I had an idea of the protected nature of Lord Howe so I didn’t think I would have much luck but I thought it wouldn’t hurt to ask. I started by ringing the Lord Howe council. The person I spoke to said that they didn’t think it was possible but I should ring the Marine Park manager of Lord Howe to confirm it.

I rang the manager of the Lord Howe Marine Park and he initially said no, it would not be possible to collect Mcc’s from Lord Howe. He quoted some legislation which did make it sound difficult if not impossible so I left it at that for the moment. Being young, excitable and enthusiastic I kept on chatting to him about, marines, clowns and Lord Howe. Before I knew it 40mins had passed. At this time I brought up the possibility of collection again, quoting back some of the legislation. This time he didn’t say no, he didn’t really say yes, but he didn’t say no. He said he would check a few things and asked me to follow up a few things with the fisheries. After a few more conversations with the Marine Parks manager and the licensing officials from the fisheries I got the surprise of my life, they would let me apply for a one off collection license, initially just for a pair of clowns.

When applying for the license I brought up the fact that during the collection process some losses were common and asked if I could apply to collect more then the one pair to cover attrition. They said I could try but I wouldn’t know until the license was processed. So I filled out the license, requested that I could collect ten Mccullochi Clownfish and put down the Lord Howe lagoon as the possible collection site. In a remarkably short time I got my response, if my memory serves me right, I think it only took a bit over a month. Surprisingly they approved the license, they approved the collection of ten fish for breeding purposes, and they approved the collection site. I did have to collect in the green zones of the Marine Park in the lagoon. The green zones did not cover much of the lagoon, but it was enough. As you could all imagine I was ecstatic.

The license was issued on the 29th of January and it gave me one year to collect my Mcc’s. It turned out I would need nearly the whole year just to get organized. I had less then one year to set-up 5 different reef systems and possible QT and treatment systems. I also had to learn to scuba dive and teach myself how to collect fish. I also had to give myself a crash course in breeding marine fish. Didn’t seem like that much, boy was I wrong. I should point out that at that stage I had only been keeping marines for a year. That year was kind of crazy and is now kind of a blur so you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t have all the events neatly dated or in any real order.

Mcc System Set-ups

My foray into the breeding world started when I had a semester off from Uni because of limited courses in my field of study. As I was quickly getting obsessed with keeping marines I thought I might have a fiddle with breeding for 6months. My plan had been to be a writer and I naively thought this would be a good stay at home job that could support my writing efforts once I finished studying. I never suspected it would take over my life and every spare second for the next three and a half years and beyond. As I had been at uni for a couple of years and was surviving on limited funds I had very little budget to finance the set-up and collection of the Mcc’s so I tried to set-up their systems as cheaply as possible. Fate seemed to smile on me and before I knew it I stumbled across large second hand systems at reasonable prices. A 10ft tank, with filter and some LR was the first. This was quickly followed by a giant 3.5ft cube system. A twin 3ft, by 3ft by 2ft system was my next bargain purchase. Along the track I was even given a 6ft by 2ft by 2ft system. I was also able to obtain a 13ft by 3ft, two level stand and a number of 4fter’s to go with it. I set-up up four 4fters as a possible QT and treatment system. With my 4ft by 18inch by 18inch original display tank as my oldest system as a backup I thought I was set.

The 10ft tank was set-up with out issue and with a little adjustment over time still remains with me. So does the twin 3ft ‘cube’ systems. The giant 3.5ft cube was plagued with problems. After re-sealing it to start with I thought it would be good to go. Three times I started it only to have it start to leak sometime after. After the third attempted re-seal I abandoned it. This tank was so big, re-sealing it took some acrobatics. In a way I was relieved, lighting and maintaining such a tank would have been a challenge. Even getting rid of the darn thing took me 2.5years. The 6ft by 2ft by 2ft was the last tank to set-up and it ran fine for months. A month or two before I had planned the trip I awoke at 4am to the sound of it exploding. I quickly replaced it with a new 6ft by 18inch by 18inch. Ironically this 6ft would be where I would see my first spawn, and as of writing this the source of my only offspring.

Breeding Experience


During this time I was slowly collecting common clowns to give me some breeding experience and was lucky enough to get quite a few spawning relatively quickly. My first clown spawn came from my pair of black ocellaris. While I had limited luck hatching out large numbers of these clowns my first hatching of only a handful of larvae produced a single survivor. This lone survivor was quickly followed by several more. Once I had a pair of orange ocellaris spawning I finally had some decent number of larvae to work with. I did struggle to produce large numbers to start with but after 2months the numbers started to add up till I could pull 70-80% through. By this time I had tomatoes and maroons spawning and had similar success with raising them, but struggled with them fighting during grow-out. This is where I first started mixing ocellaris with tomatoes and maroons which reduced their aggression. Something I would use once I started raising Mcc’s. Not that it contributed a lot to my future raising of Mcc’s but I also raised bangais during this time.

Training for the Hunt


I put off learning to scuba dive for much longer then I should have. I kind of got caught up with every other aspect of my preparation. Once I finally got to it (6months before the license expired) I got delayed even further by the discover during my dive medical that I had a sinus infection. After a month of treatment I dove in head first. I got my Open Water dive ticket, and then followed it up with my Advanced Open Water ticket. I was so busy with everything I didn’t end up getting too many dives under my belt before I left but took to it pretty quickly none the less.

Partially pushed on by peoples interest on RC I had also began a search for latz during this time. I was lucky enough that during this search I came across a very open and friendly collector who would school me in fish collection. He was astounded I was able to collect Mcc’s and was happy to help. He gave me the run down on fish collection, purging, packing and shipping. He even sent me some gear to practice with and provided much of the collection gear for the actual trip. I spent a bit of time harassing the local fish to gain some experience. Initially I had hoped to get him to collect the fish for me but found out from the fisheries that because it was my license I would have to do the collection. It was probably not allowed but I had planned to take him with me as my dive partner, to at least be able to advise me as I did it. Sadly 2months before the trip was planned he injured himself diving and was not able to join me. This left me kind of stuck, at such short notice I couldn’t organize a dive partner myself. Luckily this collector knew of a local from his area who while didn’t have collection experience was a very experience diver and just happened to be free around the time the trip was planned. He was in fact a spear fishing champion so with limited options I settled on him.

Bumps in the Road


A few months before the trip I got a rather unpleasant surprise. A new director had been appointed to the fisheries and on hearing of my plans tried to cancel my license. She pointed out that my collection license was a non-commercial license and as I had planned to breed them commercially she could not allow the collection to go ahead. Luckily I was able to talk her out of this. I explained that from the very start I had made it clear I had planned to use these fish for breeding. I pointed out it said so in my license application. I also pointed out how much expense and time I had put into preparing for this collection trip after I had been given permission, really emphasizing this fact. It seemed to do the trick and she let it go through. She did make the point that this would never happen again, that I would not be able to re-apply for any further collection from Lord Howe and that she would see that the legislation would be changed so there was no chance anything could be collected from Lord Howe in the future except for scientific purposes.

The last bump in the road came only days before I left for Lord Howe. For a couple of months before the trip I had everything I thought I needed booked. As the trip was going forward at the start of Jan, during one of the busiest holiday periods this was not easy. I still managed to charter a boat for the collection and reserve scuba gear. Initially the scuba company I talked to was very helpful even offering some much needed info on the where to find Mcc’s, and their numbers. Two days before I was due to go I got a call from the scuba company, saying that the local council had heard of my collection and as a community had decided to try and stop my attempt. Anyone who was known to help me would be shunned by the community and because of this they could not hire me scuba gear. Hours later I got a call from the charter company, with the same news. I was able to scrounge together some equipment before I left but not everything, I still need weights, tanks, and most importantly air to fill the tanks. So as I’m sure you could all imagine I was a little freaked by the time I boarded the plane to Lord Howe, not knowing what lay ahead.


Sorry to say I will have to leave it at that for the moment. I’ll try to write up the rest soon but I have so much going on I can’t guarantee it straight away. As it is, I rushed it much more then I wanted and I probably messed up the writing of it and most likely missed a few things. I thought people may have some questions after this first installment. I wasn’t sure how much detail to provide so if I missed anything ask away.

Ryan.

Ryan, this is an amazing story thus far....talk about cliffhangers. I'm only halfway through and I feel like you need to submit this for publication and get PAID for such a great writeup!!!

Just my $0.02...this is a great contribution to MOFIB! Thanks for settling down and doing this!!!

Matt

BTW...

mrblue wrote:because of how I obtained my Mcc broodstock I can not legally sell them, so that makes it difficult.

Just to clarify, you cannot legally sell "them" as in the broodstock, not "them" as in the offspring - symantics perhaps but with a statement like that here, it pays to publicy clarify

Matt

Ryan, this is an amazing story thus far....talk about cliffhangers. I'm only halfway through and I feel like you need to submit this for publication and get PAID for such a great writeup!!!

Just my $0.02...this is a great contribution to MOFIB! Thanks for settling down and doing this!!!

Matt

Glad to hear I have you intrigued Matt . It's also nice to hear you think it might be a story worthy of publication. Apart for the fact that the main stars are a bunch of fish this long story has sometime felt like some sort of drama . Oh, and sorry about the cliffhanger. Seemed like a natural place to pause .

BTW...

mrblue wrote:
because of how I obtained my Mcc broodstock I can not legally sell them, so that makes it difficult.


Just to clarify, you cannot legally sell "them" as in the broodstock, not "them" as in the offspring - symantics perhaps but with a statement like that here, it pays to publicy clarify

Matt

Just to clarify I can't sell the broodstock but already I have permission to sell the offspring. At the moment I can't personally export them but I can sell them. Which means, even if this last license falls through transshipping is an option.

Ryan.

Just amazing Ryan ! I can´t imagine how much your had spinned during that year, but you´re doing very good so far !;) Keep on tell in us when you have more time.
Anderson.

Thanks Anderson . My head still hurts after all the stress of this adventure. I still can't believe I ever made it this far with all the obstacles, but I guess they say, nothing good comes easily .

Ryan.

Ryan, you can't just post that!!! I got all excited when I saw "MrBlue" as the new poster on this thread...the suspense is killing me (even though I know how it ends!!!)

Matt

Lol, sorry about that Matt. I should have been more specific about how long it would be. I've got heaps going on and it probably wont be towards the end of next week before I finish up. I've got 44ft of new tanks arriving in the next few days and getting ready for them is insane. It's kind of like playing musical chairs in a closet just fitting them in. Not to mention the fact that I'm raising up to 4 different batches of larvae at the moment and over the next couple of days.

I wasn't sure if I should have posted anything but I did say I would so I thought I should try and add something. I thought seeing as people had an idea of how it all turned out just adding the first half couldn't hurt.

Ryan.