Albino Clownfish?

[Marcel]

So does that mean, a real albino has got red eyes? I think so. But what about the rest. Should be the body only white or should it look like the freshwater albinos.
For example this is a freshwater fish. His body is normally black, the tail is red. These albinos are almost white/silver, except the tail. The tail is slightly orange/red. His eyes are red. Which makes sense, if the black pigmentation is missing, the red will turn into something orange. And the snake looks similar.
So should look a clown similar?

[Marcel]

I googled for hours and i could not find the right information. But i figured out myself, the definition of albinos.
The albino has a lack of dark pigmentation. I think the melamine is missing.
Because of the lack of pigmentation, the eyes are red. So why has to be an animal, fish, etc. pure white with red eyes?
All the snakes, fish, etc. with the colour red as a part of there body, are not pure white as albinos. They got red eyes and the red, orange or yellow looks milky.
As you can see in the pictures above.
I could not find one picture with a creature pure white and red eyes, which got normally the colour red, orange or yellow as a part of their body.
If the colours red, orange (orange is also made from red), etc. would disappear to white, should the eyes not also be white????
That means, a albino clown must look like similar to the freshwater albino shark.
To get an idea how that would look like, i faked a picture from a normal ocellaris.
Tell me what you think about it.

[alberto]

ahhh... learned something new. i was thinking of albino people and most dont have red or pink eyes

[Luis A M]

Ok,let´s make it clear
Albinos are amelanistic,meaning without melanine,the black pigment.All other pigments could remain,but the black doesn´t show.This lack of black pigment is general including the eye´s retina,which exposes it´s blood vessels producing the red eyes efect.Some few albino mammals (human,gorilla,dog,cat,horse) because of the structure of the iris don´t show the red eyes like all the others (rabbit,rat,mouse,etc.).
Your example of the corn snake comes suitable to explain this pigment mutations.This snake lacks all black colour,which enhances the remaining red that looks more brilliant that normal,and red eyes.It is a real albino,or amelanistic.
But there is another mutation where the red colour is not produced.This is a darker specimen with black eyes which is called anerythristic (no red)
And what happens if we breed an amelanistic with an anerythristic?
Some of the offspring will be able to produce both red and black colours and show the normal colour of the species.But others will be unable to produce both colours and be amelanistic and anerythristic.They are called "double albinos"or "snowflakes",as they are completely white,with red eyes.
The same happens with fish and you can see that some albinos show red or other pigments while others are completely white (pink due to the blood seen beneath the skin)

[Marcel]

Hi Luis,

thanks for your comment. Now it´s really clear. You are very well informed about this. What´s your trade?
I could not put it better in words, than you. Not even in my mother language german.
I think every thing that needs to be said about albinos was said.
The next time when this topic will come up is, when somebody post the first picture of an real albino.

Thanks again

Marcel

[Luis A M]

Bitte,Marcel.Ich bin Artz.
Kannst Du auch Afrikaans?

[Colby]

So Marcel, when are you going to show us pictures of your juvie Albino Ocellaris?

Colby

[Marcel]

So Marcel, when are you going to show us pictures of your juvie Albino Ocellaris?

Colby

Who said, i got Albinos?

[Colby]

Well news travles fast in the industry...

But, I guess there could be another breeder in south africa with albino ocellaris...

I had assumed you were the one due to your questions about albinism and looking for how much to sell them for.

Sorry if I'm wrong.

Colby

[Marcel]

So ORA could not keep quit, isn´t it?

[Colby]

No, not quite.

I work for a large mariculture company and would be very interested in talking to you.

Colby

[aomont]

Maybe we can finally see pics of an albino clown and a black maroon in the same thread !
Anderson.

[Colby]

[Marcel]

Hi Colby,

would be interested too.
Actually, i wanted to wait a while, before i publish the first pictures. They are still small, but the bigger they are, the nicer they are.
On the other side, i think MOFIB ist the best place to publish the first pictures.
So here we go.
All the pictures were taken without a flash and the juveniles on the pictures are between 15 and 20 mm.
I must take a few new pictures, but it is not so easy to take the pictures with my cellphone.

[DrHsu]

Marcel,

Very nice!

I think what it will do is make the orange much brighter than their siblings/parents. Should be some nice looking fish.

How many of them do you have? Since they are recessive, you would want to establish some pairs of them - they will give you 100% albinos. What I would also do is once they are breeding, you could also split them up and pair them back to their parents to see if it is a spontaneous mutation, or if both the parents have the gene - you should at least get 50% albinos if the parents carry the recessive gene.

Oh....and thanks for posting the first ever albino clownfish pictures on MOFIB!

[acroporas]

Hi there,

has anybody an idea, how much an Albino-Ocellaris will be worth?

Regards

Marcel

Well now that you have shared your pictures, I will share my thoughts as to their worth.

In general, the price of CB fish is determined by the difficulty & costs involved in raising them. Ultimately Albino Ocellaris will prove to be no more difficult to breed as regular Ocellaris. Because of that they are worth the same amount as regular ocellaris. Percula's take 2x as long to mature, so the will allways be worth 2x as much. Only perhaps 25% of the offspring of Picasso Percula's are picassos, so until the strain is fixed to breed true, picasso's will be worth 4x as much as a regular percula.

However that is when there is competition.

At the moment, you have a monopoly on albino ocellaris. So you can charge how ever much you want for them. The fewer fish you release, the higher the price will be. The more skilled you are at driving up the demand, the more fish you will be able to sell at those inflated prices. As an example of how high the price can go when the supply is small and there is no competition, Mr Blue's Mcc's are selling for ~$3000 per fish.

So, my advise to you is to get to work on a marketing team, and milk everything you can out of the first few fish you release, because your monopoly will not last long. Right now, the price is only limited by the skill of your marketing team. But 3 years from now, breeders from around the world will be producing albino ocellaris, and they will be worth no more than a regular ocellaris.

[Marcel]

I am aware of this. I was actually counting on a monopoly for 2 years from selling the first fish.
At the moment there are a few things to think about and to wait for. When i got all the facts, i will write about it as soon as i now them, i will make my decision.
Until then, i will keep you guys updated with pictures. The bigger they get, the better they look.
I need to organise a good camera. And i have to count the Albinos. They swimming in a 100 litre tank with all the other ones. In total almost 300.
But if i have to take a guess, i would say there are around 20-30 Albinos.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

I am already planning to open up a special website, email-address, etc.

Marcel

[Alberta-newb]

Marcel,

Congratulations! Very interesting fish with beautiful coloration. I'm betting you will be overwhelmed with emails from around the world with people trying to get a pair of their own. Time to get a good spam filter

[Colby]

Marcel, PM sent...

Colby

[Marcel]

As an example of how high the price can go when the supply is small and there is no competition, Mr Blue's Mcc's are selling for ~$3000 per fish.

Tell me, where i can find more informations about "Mr Blue's Mcc's"?
Actually, i read your advice now for the third time and the more often i read it, there more sensitive are my thoughts. I have to take my time, i have to check the market up and down.
You see, the thing is, these few Albinos i got, might be the only ones, because the last three batches were crap and the female is not eating anymore. She is swimming at a specialists QT, to see if she is sick or what.
But he told me already, all the symptoms are showing, that she is going to die because of old age. She is 9 years old, she is loosing the centre point, which means she is not swimming straight anymore. The chance is 50/50 that the male carries the genes for albinism. But the male is in the same age. So at the moment it is not looking so good. If there is no chance to breed more albinos, then i keep all the albinos and all the other normal ocellaris, because they carry the gene defect too. I good two years time to set up a huge hatchery, all depends on the demand. I always said, i am going to retire when i am 50 years old. So i got 9 years left.
Two years for setting up a hatchery, two years for earning good bucks and i dont know what to do with the other five years. But we will see, what solution will come my way. Remember i had the luck to breed the first Albinos, why must my luck stop right now? By the way, it was also the first time ever i bred clowns.

[acroporas]

Tell me, where i can find more informations about "Mr Blue's Mcc's"?

Mr Blue's Saga, collecting and breeding Mcc's
viewtopic.php?f=169&t=612

Discussion of the fish finally becoming available.
viewtopic.php?f=169&t=4416

A currently available pair of Mr Blue's Mcc's. US $5,999 for a pair.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/DiversDen/It ... ddid=57793

[aomont]

Very nice fishes Marcel ! You deserve to make some money out of them !
Think carefully and do not rush !!!!

:)

Now it´s your time to show us some pics Colby.
Anderson.

[acroporas]

If there is no chance to breed more albinos, then i keep all the albinos and all the other normal ocellaris, because they carry the gene defect too.

Please do not keep them all. The farther you spread them the less likely that disease or some other disaster would kill out the entire population of albino ocellaris. Even if you do not want to sell them and plan to keep them all for future broodstock, give a few pairs to friends you trust for safe keeping so you have a backup if something happens to the fish in your facility.

Also, if you did ramp up production to 20 pairs of broodstock, you would very quickly flood the market. 20 pair = 10,000 fish a month. At that volume, they would be worth no more than regular ocellaris. If you want to keep the high prices that a rare fish can bring, you have to keep it rare. On the other hand 10,000 fish * $4 > 20 fish * $400.

[Luis A M]

Have anybody actually produce any albino clownfish EVER?

Not that I know.And virtually every comm bred FW fish have an albino strain

Well my statement is outdated.Albino ocellaris have been produced at last!
This is amazing,for some obscure reasons we never had an albino clown before,or any albino marine fish,or any fixed strain breeding true.So you have not one but several First time ever And ocellaris and other clowns have been bred by the thousands since Martin Moe first reproduced ocellaris,ca.1970!
So I am very excited about these fish and that you chose MOFIB to have this wonderful achievement announced to the world.
Now,two requests on behalf of MOFIB and the rest of the marine aquarium community:
Could you tell the full story?No need to give names,or commercial aspects.
And could you take better pics?.This is something you,MOFIB,and especially this fish rightly deserve!

[Marcel]

Please do not keep them all. The farther you spread them the less likely that disease or some other disaster would kill out the entire population of albino ocellaris. Even if you do not want to sell them and plan to keep them all for future broodstock, give a few pairs to friends you trust for safe keeping so you have a backup if something happens to the fish in your facility.

Also, if you did ramp up production to 20 pairs of broodstock, you would very quickly flood the market. 20 pair = 10,000 fish a month. At that volume, they would be worth no more than regular ocellaris. If you want to keep the high prices that a rare fish can bring, you have to keep it rare. On the other hand 10,000 fish * $4 > 20 fish * $400.

Hi Will,

thanks again for you advice. I am going to love these people here.
I don´t have any friends with fishtanks here in South Africa. The backup story is i good and i think the most important idea.

But please explain the way you count. I saw a similar example and i still don´t understand it.

10,000 fish * $4 > 20 fish * $400.

Forget it. I understand it now. The "star" means times. So 10.000 fish times 4 = 40.000 or 20 fish times 400 = 8.000. Now i got it!

But tell me, you count 10.000 x 4, does that mean in the States you get for a CB ocellaris only 4 US-Dollar? I can´t imagine that.

I should set up another independent system to keep backup asap.