411 on tigger pods with H. zosterae & frys?

[timinnl2]

Greetings from Amsterdam,

May I please have some info on putting tigger pods in with H. zosterae or as a food source for seahorse fry.

Kind Regards,

Tim

[vaporize]

depending on the seahorse fries size, seems like zosterae will have no problem eating them. However there are also reports that when the fish fries are too small, they actually cling onto them and eventually kill the fish fries. So you might want to watch out on that depending on the fries' size.

[timinnl2]

depending on the seahorse fries size, seems like zosterae will have no problem eating them. However there are also reports that when the fish fries are too small, they actually cling onto them and eventually kill the fish fries. So you might want to watch out on that depending on the fries' size.

That is the part I am looking for. Reports of Tigriopus califoricus bothering or killing H. zosterae & their fry. I like them for my larger seahorses & fishes. But I need to make it clear to someone that it is not good in with the H. zosterae.

Tim

[vaporize]

depending on the seahorse fries size, seems like zosterae will have no problem eating them. However there are also reports that when the fish fries are too small, they actually cling onto them and eventually kill the fish fries. So you might want to watch out on that depending on the fries' size.

That is the part I am looking for. Reports of Tigriopus califoricus bothering or killing H. zosterae & their fry. I like them for my larger seahorses & fishes. But I need to make it clear to someone that it is not good in with the H. zosterae.

Tim

Tim, have you asked on the ORG also? They are more seahorse focus there.

with regard to the fries comment, it was coming from Dr. Adelaide a few years ago

[timinnl2]

Yes I ask on the org & RC. I am looking for the report from Dr. Rhodes. DanU was most helpful, but the lady doesn't believe that what he said is true.

Is this more of a prove a point with someone who is selling harpacticoid copepods as that. Not knowing calling harpacticoid copepods is like saying you own a dog. I found out that they were Tigriopus califoricus by asking the Vendor in the UK what they were. She is selling their offsprings from the vendor's culture without knowing anything about it.

Kind Regards,

Tim

[timinnl2]

Bump. Anyone know where else I should look for an answer?

Tim

[seafarm]

Dr. Rhodes posted a message several years ago that this "might" be an issue. Since my company produces "Tigger-Pods" I watched very closely to see if anybody confirmed that this was an issue for them. Nobody ever made a confirmed posting.

Tigger-Pods are primarily a free swimming species. They do periodically sit on the sides of the tank, but immediately launch back into the water at the slightest disturbance. So it would not make sense for them to cling to a fish which is constantly moving. Tigger-Pods live in tide-pools where there are no fish so they don't recognize fish. That's one of their values as a feed - they don't try to run away. At the same time, they would not recognize fish as an opportunity either, they are simply a disturbance in the water.

There are copepods that do cause problems for fish, but Tigger-Pods are not.

[timinnl2]

So is the Tigriopus califoricus safe in with H. zosterae & their young or not? Sorry but I didn't realize that tigger pod was your trademarked name for them. ME bad.

Tim

[seafarm]

Tigriopus califoricus (Tigger-Pods) are completely safe with fish.

[enigma]

Randy, Please be clear that you are posting this a member with a business and not a director of MOFIB.

[enigma]

Speaking as a person who cultures Tigrioupus, I have ha a great deal more success with enriched BBS on zosterae sp. The tigriopus tend to stay clear of the little guys and and sometimes seem a little too big to snick. BBS has long been the stand by. I produce other specie of copepods, but they are simply too slow in production compared to the cost of feeding the horses. Even Tigriopus is an extravagantly expensive meal when compares to BBS.

[ladygator]

Just to clarify, I made the comment about Tigriopus species (no particular brand) because as a visiting scientist at Seahorse Ireland I witnessed Tigriopus copepodites clawing their way through the guts of larval H. kuda after ingestion - resulting in seahorse death.

Now, whether all species of seahorses would suffer the same fate is a matter of first hand observation with every species out there, so I leave that to the seahorse experts. Ken Maher, Kealan Doyle and Marianne Greene were all there when this happened, if members of MOFIB want some additional contacts on this issue.

Other harpacticoid species such as Ammonardia normani can be aggressive to fish larvae as well, Dr. Fleeger reported in his article for Copepods in Aquaculture that he witnessed these copepods poking their tails into the eyes of approaching fish larvae.

In addition, Chris Parrish reported that some of the harpacticoids he was using with larval cod would be a nuisance, since they would grab onto the fish and ride around on their gills, causing them to stress out and die.

I have a picture during my talks showing this phenomenon with a combination of Cherry Point herring larvae and Tigriopus californicus nauplii. There are about 100 nauplii sitting on this poor fish larvae, stressing it to death. This picture was provided by Paul Dinnel, a researcher at WSU via Randall Marshall, who works for the Washington State Department of Ecology.

My advice is to spend some time with just a few fish larvae and the proposed food observing their interactions before investing a lot in them as a potential larval food source. There are numerous combinations of copepod/fish that have not been tried previously. Also, consider the old standards of rotifers and decapsulated brine shrimp, these foods can be enriched to be nutritious, and sometimes are the simplest solution.

Please report your findings here so we may all learn from them.

Regards,

Adelaide

[enigma]

My advice is to spend some time with just a few fish larvae and the proposed food observing their interactions before investing a lot in them as a potential larval food source.

Very good advice Ad, just really hard to follow for most folks considering the cost and time to culture.

[timinnl2]

Greeting from Amsterdam,

Thank you for all of the replies. My main concern was adding them to the H. zosterae tank. Right now I am feeding them enriched bbs, tisbe, nitokra lacustris, moina salina & tonsa. I keep mysis in the tank & a pair of peppermint shrimp in a HOB breeder trap on the tank with them.

I know that I can buy the Tigger pods & your other products from the UK. I have used your products before & will be ordering more soon. Do you have anyone in Germany or Belgium selling them?

To enigma,

Thank you for trying to send me your products. (They were sent back to you because of a problem with customs.) Hopefully someone here will be carrying them soon.

To ladygator, I would like to order your products. But I am afraid that they would be sent back.

I kept hearing about your lecture & info in regards to what you saw, but I could not find the info on it. So thank you for answering my question.

Kind Regards,

Tim

[angi]

hi there,
my english is bad and I understand not all. But I have tigerpods over 5 or 6 years and I am breedings seahorses all the time. First, it is right, that tigriopus californicus is carnivorous, he eats meat and is a little devil. he eats other copepods - smaller benthic and also bigger afloats copepods!Tigriopus contaminates all plankton cultures, you have, if you do not get save care. I have a backup of brachionus plicatilis in a 25 litre glass that was closed since 5 years without lifting! It contains microalgae, brachionus and tigerpods. Tigerpods eats rots and rots eats algae, but it is a real oecosphere. Tigriopus eat and kill newly hatched bbs, he attack tiny fishlarvae hardley. I have 100 times seen that tigeriopus attack larvae and also newborn or subadult seahoreses. but he is not able to kill baby seahorses because of hardy skin. all seahorse babies, older than 5 days are able to eat copepodits of tigriopos and they love to eat them. nutrion is very good. And older stages of seahorses - zosterae too - love to eat these adult red fat cops. tigriopus are curse and blessing at the same time! they make your other zooplankton culture bad, they kill very tiny fish larvae but they are a very good nutrion and food for older seahorse babies, adult zosterae, drangonets, anthias, apogon parvulus and so on...

[ladygator]

Thank you for the good observations. I will keep those in mind. What happens before the seahorses are 5 days old? Do they seem happy with rotifers.

Tim - I try to avoid shipping overseas if at all possible due to the high costs, mostly.

[angi]

Adelaide,
I feed only tisbe, nitokra or copepodits of calanoid copepods to newborn seahorses. I have never tried rots.

Tim,
I have a permit to import living plankton into EU. It nevertheless gave always delays in the custom, since the goods has to go only to the office veterinary surgeon. The legal situation for the import of a living plankton into the EU is unclear. The products were at my last import in Frankfurt more than 14 days, everything was mattered bad to it here. The financial damage was immense, I had nevertheless to pay even the examinations in the country laboratory.

Enigma,
sorry for long delay and thanks again for examples. I have not reported due to problems described above any more.
We can start a new test, only with zooplankton. Tim can append himself to the order. We can do it also with Adelaide that way.