Skin and Fin Bubble Disease / Syndrome on Jawfish?

Skin and Fin Bubble Disease / Syndrome on Jawfish?

Postby mpedersen » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:34 pm

So for the past couple weeks a malady has cropped up on my Yellowhead Jawfish (Opistignathos aurifrons) and even to a greater extent, my Pearly Jawfish (also O. aurifrons, different collecting locality). The fish seem unaffected behaviorly, but clearly something isn't right. The fish appear to have bubbles on their bodies and fins. They look more like fluid-filled sacs, akin to what you might see on a "Bubble Eye Goldfish".

The tank was put through a 5 day treatment with Salwater Maracyn (for red slime)...whatever this condition/disease is was unaffected by the Maracyn treatment.

Here are some pictures:

Image

Image

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Any thoughts?

Matt
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Postby mpedersen » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:40 pm

FYI, you can see some additional pictures in my jawfish breeding thread ( http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/view ... =6916#6916 )that show the progression of this issue...a picture on the 24th I'm able to discern one of these bubbles on the yellowhead, but not nearly to the extent of what I've shown above.

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Postby Colby » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:00 am

I have seen something similar to this in fish that had died as a result of fatty liver syndrome...what do you feed them?
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Postby mpedersen » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:15 am

Everything under the sun, but fatty liver had crossed my mind. For the most part, the diet is comprised of Brine Shrimp, Mysis, and Pelletted foods like Formula 1 and Formula 2. Those are probably the 4 main staples around here. Mysis and Brine are soaked in Selcon maybe 50% of the time, alternating with Virbrance II (30% of the time) and Reef Plus (20% of the time). I also give Cylops / Cyclopeze soaked in Reef Plus, more routinely now than earlier on.

The wierd thing for me is that whatever this is, the bubbles on the skin cropped up rather suddenly...

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Postby mpedersen » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:36 am

FWIW, this is only getting worse...I MUST try to get a picture of the Pearly Jaw today..his tail is clamped and his entire body is covered in these bulbous, lumpy clear tumors, yet he continues to eat and otherwise act pretty normal, and this malady is strictly reserved to the two jawfish. Anyone?

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Postby FuEl » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:41 pm

Could it be due to decompression sickness?
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Re:

Postby mpedersen » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:07 pm

FuEl wrote:Could it be due to decompression sickness?


Have had the fish far too long for that, and this is developing slowly, over weeks...

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Postby aquafarmer » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:05 pm

Matt,

Only thing I can think of is gas saturation. Any bubbles in the eyes? We dealth with gas saturation with the fish hatchery and also some with seahorses recently. In these cases it was a sharp increase in temp or bacteria related. Do you have aeration or a lot of surface agitation in their tank? That would help to break up the gases that may be in the water. I'm not totally sure this is what it is, but just throwing it out there. I hope you can figure out what it is.

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Re:

Postby mpedersen » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:08 am

aquafarmer wrote:Matt,

Only thing I can think of is gas saturation. Any bubbles in the eyes? We dealth with gas saturation with the fish hatchery and also some with seahorses recently. In these cases it was a sharp increase in temp or bacteria related. Do you have aeration or a lot of surface agitation in their tank? That would help to break up the gases that may be in the water. I'm not totally sure this is what it is, but just throwing it out there. I hope you can figure out what it is.

Christine


Well, it's a nanocube 24, so it's internal built in filtration, not wet-dry style. The only gas input is in the form of ONE airstone in the back chamber. To make matters worse, the surface slick hasn't been skimming off to a level I'd normally accept..i.e. despite having a surface skimmer there's still a slick. So in my estimate, if anything, dissolved gas levels in the water would be poor.

I'm really leaning towards bacterial EXCEPT for the fact that a 5 day treatment with Maracyn II did nothing ;) Granted, I could try something different. The bubbles don't appear to be "gas" filled, but more fluid filled. Almost like a thick, super thick slime coating.

The ONLY similar thing I've ever seen on fish is on Greenbanded Gobies (Elactinus multifasciatus) and Mandarins (Synchiropus splendidus) when infested with Cryptocaryn...they develop similar transluscent pusstules. It's not the same, but it's the closets thing I can think of every observing.

FWIW,

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Postby The Ediaz » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:22 pm

I think mano is right, that looks like nitro saturation in the water...seen it before

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Postby mpedersen » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:12 pm

How do I fix it? And why is it not affecting the Onyx Percs and Sunburst Anthias?

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Postby The Ediaz » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:23 pm

Remove whatever sucks air into your system, I had that happened to my percs after 35 days they will get so bloated they will burst, they had bubbles hanging like that. It did not happened to fish 60 days or older I think bigger fish can tolerate it better, I looked for everything nothin helped lost most my fish, a friend at FIT told me about it, removed the skimmer havent seen it in years.My larval system does not have a skimmer, just trickle filters.

I am not saying thats wht you have but it sure looks like.

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Postby aquafarmer » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:29 pm

Those fish just may be more sensitive to it too. Our seahorse fry are really sensitive to it as well, but the older ones it doesn't seem to show up on.

Sounds like it could be the skimmer, especially if you say it isn't operating correctly.

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Re:

Postby mpedersen » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:43 pm

aquafarmer wrote:Those fish just may be more sensitive to it too. Our seahorse fry are really sensitive to it as well, but the older ones it doesn't seem to show up on.

Sounds like it could be the skimmer, especially if you say it isn't operating correctly.

Christine


There's no skimmer...by skimmer I meant surface overflow. The only injection of air is through a small air pump into the back chamber...no air bubbles coming into the main tank, if anything due to the SURFACE FILM I would have expected gas exchange to be minimal and thus stuff being depleted, unless somehow nitrogen gas isn't able to escape?

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Here's the bubble 'disease' on the Pearly Jawfish

Postby mpedersen » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:23 pm

Finally got some good pictures. Look at the dorsal and anal fins...this is where it's VERY prevelent and if not "severe". The fish still eats like a champ and otherwise appears to behave normally.

Image

Image

Image

FWIW,

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ANYONE? Jawfish Skin Bubbles?

Postby mpedersen » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:36 am

Anyone have ANY additional different or otherwise thoughts with that latest round of pictures???? This malady seems to continue to be getting worse and frankly I've never seen anything like it. To boot, the remaining fish in the tank continue to be unaffected!

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Postby mpedersen » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:42 am

BTW, since there was mentions of air injection causing this, I did get the surface skimmer back in order (to maximize gas EXCHANGE in both directions, i.e. allowing nitrogen to escape?) and did a carbon swap. I have not pulled the single air stone at this time..I think with the load in the tank, if anything, it is more likely needed to maintain dissolved O2 levels vs. causing problems of over-saturation..there are 7 fish in a 24 gallon tank afterall!

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Postby mpedersen » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:51 am

One more "BTW" - I've branched out of MOFIB in search of other people who may have other ideas...so there's a 2nd thread at http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic72512-10-1.aspx

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Postby mpedersen » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:39 pm

FWIW, all the responses there were for basically gas bubble diseases, i.e. hypersaturation or bacterial related.

Unfortunately, I dont' think this stuff is filled with "GAS".
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Postby aomont » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:40 am

If it`s filled with liquid, is there any vet around your area willing to evaluate a sample (smear of the liquid in a glass slide) ?
I would love to take a look at it but it may be too long before I receive it...
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