Documented breeding setups for cleaner shrimp larvae

Documented breeding setups for cleaner shrimp larvae

Postby Cardinal » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:29 am

Please share your experiences about your different setups when it comes to attempting to raise the larvae of Lysmata amboinensis to adulthood.

No matter if you have tried to raise them in a bucket, petri dish, kreisel, cylinder or rectangular aquarium it would be great if you could share the positive and negative aspects of your attempts.

Please specify the container used, how circulation was used, filtration worked etc.

------------------------------------

My own findings:

I have tried different solutions. The first was a 10 gallon rectangular tank with an airstone (as described by Kirkendoll). I found that this solution was not optimal because:

These shrimps are very passive feeders and where not able to catch the food as easily as peppermint shrimp do as well as getting stuck in detrius etc on the bottom. They are also more delicate and the bubbles from the airstone seem to damage ligaments, causing injury and death. The shrimps survived around 30 days in this environment.

I then switched to small containers containing about a dl of water and tested different food items, circulation, lighting schemes. The best result was surprisingly in the container where I had no circulation and only fed newly hatched brine shrimp. The last one died after 54 days in this environment. I changed almost all the water every day.

Now I am back from my holiday and have constructed two simple kreisels where my hope is that the larvae and food items will be suspended and therefore theoretically mean that the larvae will spend less energy catching their prey and also limit the risk that they get settled on the bottom. It would also decrease the risk of ensnaring and possible infection due to exposure to dead bodies/material on the bottom. The kreisel will be inside a larger tank where I can have aggressive cleaning which would not have been possible if they where outside the kreisel.
This sounds like a good approach to me but I will have to do some more testing and fine tuning before I can try this approach.

Please post your own experiences regarding your setups here.

Thanks

Peter
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Postby spk » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:27 pm

Peter,
Hi there, I used a 5l water container that I removed the top from, whihc left me with ab out 3l of water. I used a 3/16th rigid airline to provide the circulation. This "bucket", i then floated in a breeding tank for guppies where the temperature was around 25C. Fed on rots day 1 then bbs the after day one.

I have just completed a build of a three tier 24"x8"x8" system that has a 24"x12"x15" sump. I am using a simple linear flow through, with a very low flow rate. However this is still in the experimental stage. I filled with salt water last on Monday evening and now am in the US till Sunday. The system is cycling at the moment with some LR.

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Re:

Postby Cardinal » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:56 am

spk wrote:Peter,
Hi there, I used a 5l water container that I removed the top from, whihc left me with ab out 3l of water. I used a 3/16th rigid airline to provide the circulation. This "bucket", i then floated in a breeding tank for guppies where the temperature was around 25C. Fed on rots day 1 then bbs the after day one.

I have just completed a build of a three tier 24"x8"x8" system that has a 24"x12"x15" sump. I am using a simple linear flow through, with a very low flow rate. However this is still in the experimental stage. I filled with salt water last on Monday evening and now am in the US till Sunday. The system is cycling at the moment with some LR.

Steve


Thanks for sharing the information Steve. What was the survival rate in the first example?

How do you filter your water/how much water do you change?

I have also considered a floating device in my main tank (100g) with two sizes of mesh covering sides and bottom. One to keep the prey in and one larger mesh on the bottom for filtering out debris, dead artemia etc that would only be used when cleaning. This is something I intend to try but perhaps the water parameters in my main tank is insufficient for the purpose (it probably is). The same could offcourse be applied to my smaller breeding tank (10g) where more frequent water changes could prove a better option. I find it difficult to provide enough artemia to create a sufficient density (about 20 nauplii/ml) in my 10g so this is a better alternative imo as it also doesn´t pollute the water to the same extent.

/Peter
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Postby spk » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:00 am

Peter,

In the floatation method, I was changing about 75% of the water at a time, this was my first attempt and never managed to get past 6-8 days.

I fed the rots for the first day, as I was caught by suprise, and never took the whole batch. After the first day, I had hatched BBS, to continue feeding. I used a small amount of phyto too.

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Re:

Postby Cardinal » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:54 am

spk wrote:Peter,

In the floatation method, I was changing about 75% of the water at a time, this was my first attempt and never managed to get past 6-8 days.

I fed the rots for the first day, as I was caught by suprise, and never took the whole batch. After the first day, I had hatched BBS, to continue feeding. I used a small amount of phyto too.

Steve


It seems a lot of people loose their larvae around day six. I also have experienced quite high mortality around this time. Once they get over this obstacle they seem to live on happily until around day 30. Then the second obstacle occurs. After that the third one seems to be around day 50. These are only my observations though. Could it be that only the fittest survives past day (six)? If so could it be related to insufficient nutrition in the adults?

What are you feeding the adults with Steve? Did you really get enough prey density of newly hatched nauplii in the bucket? Have you considered the floating solution I mentioned (could be applied inside your bucket as well)?

More feedback on setups out there? Amie has an interesting thread about her "bucket method" as well found here: http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=849

/Peter
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Postby FuEl » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:28 pm

Larvae should'nt be experiencing massive die-offs before 6 days. In fact, they seem to be toughest during their first two weeks of life. I starved larvae individually before and once I had an individual larvae that lived for about 5 days just on yolk reserves.
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Postby Amie » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:58 am

I apologize for not posting here yet, I haven't been keeping up with the new posts very well. Plus, I've tried a few different methods (besides the bucket method) and I wasn't really looking forward to posting all my failures. :oops:

I don't have much time to post right now so I'll just post the first method I tried and then I'll post more tomorrow.

I spend several months trying to raise cleaner's using a 2.5 gallon container with a heater and and an airstone that kept them in slow suspension. I I kept the water slightly green all the time and I fed them rotifers and newly hatched and enriched artemia.

Results: I don't think I ever got these past 6 days. I tried this for 2-3 months - over and over and over again. I changed the salinity, the heat, and the amount of light they received. Nothing seemed to make a difference. I was changing the water 20-60% a day - that didn't make a difference either.

My personal hypothesis: I don't think the fact that they were in suspension had anything to do with the reason this method failed. (At the time, I thought that was the problem.) After reading a lot of people's notes that have stated that they don't believe that L. amboinensis can be raised in ASW, I think I finally realize why this method failed and why my bucket method actually works. (BTW: I don't have access to any ocean water. Unless you count the Great Salt Lake. :shock: ) When I raise them in the bucket, I only add a little ASW a day, and I never do a water change until about day 18-20. When I had them in suspension, I had to add at least 3 times their original amount of water before they could be in full suspension and I only took 1-2 days before getting them to that point.

I just tried the bucket method again just 3 days ago but doubled their water every day over 3 days time. They were dead in 3 days. I think that if I dripped it in slowly over several more days it would make a big difference.
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Postby spk » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:28 am

Amie,
Sorry to hear that you had so many rough attempts. Keep at it and I am sure you will get through.

I like your idea of diluting the water over a period of time. That sounds like a good idea. I have just replaces my shrimp, so I wait for eggs again.

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Re:

Postby Amie » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:07 pm

spk wrote:Amie,
Sorry to hear that you had so many rough attempts. Keep at it and I am sure you will get through.

I like your idea of diluting the water over a period of time. That sounds like a good idea. I have just replaces my shrimp, so I wait for eggs again.

Steve


Yeah, I've had quite a few failures, but I'm learning a lot. The only sad thing is that I know other people have already learned the same things and the information just isn't available yet. But if I ever do figure this out I sure will feel a huge sense of acomplishment.
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Postby spk » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:57 am

Amie,

Great, one day I hope that you get the chance to post your failures too. That way, people can alos learn and get a jump start with what you have already tried.

Hmm, I wish that I had taken more notes with what I had done and then could have added them here too.
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Re:

Postby Amie » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:02 am

spk wrote:Amie,

Great, one day I hope that you get the chance to post your failures too. That way, people can alos learn and get a jump start with what you have already tried.

Hmm, I wish that I had taken more notes with what I had done and then could have added them here too.


Well, pretty much anything I post here is a record of my failures until I get it right. :wink:
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Postby spk » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:13 am

Amie,

Yes, very true. I really like your ideas and would love to hear of more that you have tried.

Unfortunately, I have a 2 week trip to America coming up, and I will be hard pressed to do anything much for the shrimps till after that, however, I am going to try some of these methods that have been mentioned in these posts.

I have access to a couple of 5 gallon containers that I plan on using to see if I can get them post day 6, the one thing, I will try this time is not to change the water till much later in the time frame.
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Re:

Postby Amie » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:27 pm

spk wrote:I have access to a couple of 5 gallon containers that I plan on using to see if I can get them post day 6, the one thing, I will try this time is not to change the water till much later in the time frame.


I'm pretty sure I can help you get them past 6 days, but you're on your own after 23. :cry:
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Postby spk » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:05 pm

Amie,

I need all the help that I can get at the moment....

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Re:

Postby Amie » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:13 pm

spk wrote:I need all the help that I can get at the moment....
steve

When are you going to try your next batch? After your trip? I'll have something written up for you by the time you get back. I have it written up right now, but I really want to take brineshrimp out of the picture if possible, so I want to try some ideas I have with the batch that hatches next week.
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Postby spk » Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:38 am

Amie,

Yes, after my next trip I will attempt something. Thanks for this. IT would be really great.

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