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Marine Ornamental Fish & Invertebrate Breeders • View topic - O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby JimWelsh » Mon May 10, 2010 3:43 pm

It has been suggested that perhaps the calanoid copepod Acartia tonsa (and perhaps other calanoid copepods) can be cultured using only the hetertrophic dinoflagellate Oxyrrhis marina as a food source. O. marina is easily cultured using a variety of food sources.

Back in 1980, W. C. M. Klein Breteler published his paper , wherein he describes the benefit of O. marina in copepod cultures both as a food source, and as an aid in keeping the algae in the cultures from fouling the culture tanks.

A desired goal is a protocol for culturing calanoid copepods that does not require maintaining live phytoplankton cultures as food for the copepods. The question, then, is whether it is possible to culture calanoids using O. marina alone, without any live algae, and if so, how?
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Tue May 11, 2010 12:41 am

That _is_ a good question. ;)
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby Luis A M » Wed May 12, 2010 1:33 am

Well,as it is not practical to separate O.marina from it´s culture medium,we can´t give it as a sole food to A.tonsa.Instead we will be co-culturing both organisms with the algal food.Now if this can be made with algal paste,it is a nice improvement :wink:
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby JimWelsh » Thu May 13, 2010 2:41 am

OK, well I have the O. marina and the A. tonsa. I just ordered some Roti-Grow Plus from Reed Mariculture (Great company with great products, by the way!), and it should be here soon. Andy, can you give me any specifics on how much of the Roti-Grow Plus you feed your O. marina cultures, and how often? I'd like to leverage whatever you've already learned about culturing them sans live phyto.
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Thu May 13, 2010 10:50 am

Sure. For O. marina, I feed 1mL per gallon of culture, two times per day. I also add some ammonia control (ClorAmX) as I feed in a 1:1 ratio with the algae paste.

I try to change 30-50% of the water per day and I _try_ to change out the culture containers about once a week. The flagellate doesn't seem too picky, though. I've seen it in cultures where the salinity has gotten up to 1.030.
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby JimWelsh » Thu May 13, 2010 10:36 pm

When you do the water changes, do you sieve them, or do you just harvest them along with the water? If you sieve them, what size mesh do you use (gotta be pretty small!)?

ChlorAmX is a solid -- do you still just measure 1 ml by volume per gallon when adding it?
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Thu May 13, 2010 11:46 pm

I don't sieve them. I thought about it, but I think you'd need a centrifuge to do it.

Gresham says the ClorAmX ratio is 16 teaspoons per liter of water. Then you use that at the same ratio as the algae paste.
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby Luis A M » Fri May 14, 2010 2:21 am

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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Fri May 14, 2010 9:13 am

Yes, but that's what I feed them. Too little paste and the rotifers out-compete the flagellates. Too much and the flagellates out-compete the rots (and eventually the culture crashes). 1 mL grows O. marina to the density you saw on the video with stability.
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby JimWelsh » Fri May 14, 2010 10:24 am

What rotifers? My O. marina culture has no rotifers. :? :wink:
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Fri May 14, 2010 10:26 am

I should hope not, since it's your T-Iso culture. ;)
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby JimWelsh » Fri May 14, 2010 10:37 am

Fair enough -- touché!
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby Luis A M » Fri May 14, 2010 1:20 pm

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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Fri May 14, 2010 6:54 pm

I pipette 1 mL, drop into a small amount of water, swirl, and dump into the culture. My dropper is marked for mL, so yes, 1 mL. ~20 drops. Twice per day.

It is not what is recommended for rotifers, but I'm not growing rotifers in these cultures. At least, not on purpose.

My rot cultures always need more paste than recommended. Maybe it's because they have to complete with these flagellates who always contaminate the cultures.
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby Luis A M » Sat May 15, 2010 6:30 pm

If I am getting this well,you keep some thawed undiluted paste and pipette 1 ml of it?.Isn´t it too dense for pipetting? :?
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Sun May 16, 2010 1:05 pm

Andy

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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby Luis A M » Mon May 17, 2010 2:00 pm

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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Mon May 17, 2010 2:38 pm

Ugh. I should have known that. Sorry. It's been a long time since language lessons.

I don't know that RotiGrow+ is less dense than Nan, but it's _different_ than Nan, that's for sure. I open the bags and it's one of those things that just looks like it would taste horrible but probably be incredibly good for you. :)

The flagellates certainly eat like pigs. There's no doubt about that. :) I have pictures of one that must have 10-12 algae cells inside itself all at once.
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby JimWelsh » Wed May 19, 2010 2:53 am

Andy,

I find the Roti-Grow Plus too thick to be able to suck it up with a graduated 1 ml glass laboratory pipette. I can use a plastic disposable 10 ml pipette, but it's not very easy to measure this thick stuff accurately with the latter. Is it possible you are talking about an eyedropper?

Another question: how much, if any, air do you give your O. marina cultures?

It has been about 24 hours since I started an O. marina culture on the Roti-Grow Plus. I overfed a bit at the first feeding, so I'm waiting for the culture to catch up with the amount of food, but I can clearly see them multiplying handily.

Also, do you have any issues with contamination by Euplotes or other, larger ciliates? If so, what do you do about it? I have a minor problem with Euplotes, but I find that sieving and/or just letting the Oxyrrhis out-compete the Euplotes seems to take care of the problem.
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Wed May 19, 2010 10:25 am

Andy

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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby Luis A M » Thu May 20, 2010 3:30 pm

Ok,so I am starting a co-culture of A.tonsa and O.marina,being fed only with IA pastes. 8)
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby Luis A M » Sat May 22, 2010 9:26 pm

After 3 days the experimental culture is teeming with copepods,(1 naup/ml).And the O.marina must be consumed by them,as their numbers fall and it must be replenished daily.
A control culture,set the same but without copepods,shows a dense population of O.marina 8)
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby Luis A M » Sat May 29, 2010 4:04 pm

After 10 days,the A.tonsa population keeps thriving and lots of new naups were produced.
So this experiment met definitely with success;A.tonsa can be cultured without live algae,with algae paste and O.marina! :D
This is an exciting finding,as we can now culture all the copepods we need without the hassle of mass phyto production which at the hobbyist level,proved to be the weak link of the chain,and the bottleneck for successful larval raising.Algae cultures sometimes crash,but we can have all the paste and O.marina that we need,without limits.
Next step now is to try this with other copepod species! :wink:
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby JimWelsh » Sat May 29, 2010 4:30 pm

Very cool! I'm just getting around to starting my co-culture. I have several strong A. tonsa cultures (thanks again, Luis!) and just today started one of them on a strict O. marina + RotiGrow Plus. I will soon start Euterpina and Oithona on a similar regimen. I have recently acquired Parvocalanus and Bestiolina, too (thanks again, Karen!), but they are still recovering from USPS abuse. Once they recover, I'll attempt this approach with them, too.

Can you give specifics of your protocol, Luis?
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Re: O. marina as a sole food for A. tonsa?

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Sat May 29, 2010 4:59 pm

Nice Luis! I'm still having trouble with getting thriving tonsa cultures and O. marina, but I do still see living copepods after ~2 weeks. I suspect that I offered too many flagellates and seem to be doing better with offering tonsa less food. I have also started experimenting with adding a small amount of N-Rich (another algae paste product) in place of some of the daily offered RotiGrow and am seeing much more dense O. marina cultures.
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