Protien Skimmers

Protien Skimmers

Postby Clownfish75 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:53 am

Hi Folks

I am currently undergoing the never ending system upgrades, the current issue at hand is protien skimmers.

I have about 5000L (1500gal) with a high stocking density, I have built one skimmer using 2 beckett air injectors, the skimmer body is 1.2m (4ft) high and about 250mm (10inchs) diameter. It works well but requires a fairly large and electricity hungry pump to drive it giving me about 10l/min through each injector. If i turn of a couple of filters i can get about 15l/min.

The question is, i wanted to try something else, so does anyone have any good ideas on a water to get more air into the column? Any good technical ideas on how to approach the problem at hand for the second skimmer i am about to build.

Thanks

Christian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby Jeff » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:37 pm

Christian,

For a system that size, you will want to be putting ~80-100 lpm of air into your skimmer. IMO, 10lpm is WAY too little for a 1500g system. Now, the problem you are going to run into is the height of your skimmer, and being able to get that much air with that head pressure. Almost all aspirating skimmer pumps do not do head well. The Askoll 1500 you and I have been discussing is one of the better performers at head...I have tested one that was doing 80 SCFH (~37 lpm) at 52" of head pressure. The other problem is going to be, can your skimmer handle ~100 lpm of air? for 100 lpm, you will want a 6-8" diameter neck....what size is the neck on our skimmer?

Another option is to run 2 skimmers...and if you do them both with efficient NW/PW pumps, you can still do 2 skimmers that combined use far less electricity than your current beckett. IIWM, I would keep the skimmer body I have, and put ~30-50lpm of air into it, then build another shorter/fatter skimmer and put 40-50 lpm into that one. Run them "in series" so to speak, so that the short/fat skimmer is first for rapid removal of the "easy" DOC's, then have the tall skimmer second in line for the longer contact and removal of "hard" DOC's.
Jeff
 
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby Clownfish75 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:26 pm

Thanks for the info Jeff.

The skimmer neck is variable as i built it myself, but it could be technically difficult to get the neck to 6-8 inchs. Having said that the next skimmer could be much larger in diameter is i decide to. Its all just money after al!!!!

Did you have any joy on find out about the pump housing?

I was planning to play with the height of the thing see how it goes.

2 skimmers in series sounds interesting but think i might have to much crummy water to do that

Christian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby amashun » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:02 pm

I think even with those pumps you will have problem with the cost of building yourself a cost efficient skimmer. (Acrylic cylinders do cost arm and leg in OZ)

Co-incidentally i have discussed your situation with Luke33 and we both think that your best buck is to build a skimmer that use air pump. (the air pump with 220V are damn cheap) you will be easily archive 100lpm+.

Jonathan built himself an air pump skimmer fed by gravity and that works extremely well, he got a 1kG+ system and worth to check that out. getting piece of acrylic to build square skimmer should be way cheaper than cylinder to start with and i think that suit your situation best.
http://home.wavecable.com/~jrowe/skimmer.htm

HTH
Cheers,
Adrian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby Clownfish75 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:32 pm

Adrian do you know where the airstones came from?

Christian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby amashun » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:59 pm

Christian, i'm sorry, i'm not sure where you can get them in OZ.

Perhaps send Jonathan an email to ask about this? he mentioned that but i just can not remember. He also mentioned that the airstone needs to be replacement appox once a year (which i think same rules apply to pond pump too for maintainence)

if i would want something unique in OZ, i'm sure you may already noticed that aquasonic sell heaps of stuffs so i would assume they may have something you after but still....they are pricey :D

A
Cheers,
Adrian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby amashun » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:12 pm

btw, i just quickly check Jonathan's site under "Favorites" and i found his air pump's link
http://www.septicsolutions.net/store/alitalinear.htm

if you have problem to get a hold on J then i think you can also ask the guys from above link.

HTH
Cheers,
Adrian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby Jeff » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:43 pm

Christian,

The airstone skimmer is a good idea...not sure if they ship to Oz, but Jonathan's airstones came from www.aquaticeco.com

We would be willing to ship to Oz if you are interested, I just need to find out how much it would cost :) How do you normally ship from the states to you?

Your current skimmer as is will still not handle 100 lpm of air...I would guess that with the airstones, 40-50lpm would be the max air that will handle. And even then you will need a large neck to handle that.

What is your current neck dia? Let me know that and the biggest neck you can easily get on there and I'll tell you exactly how much air you can get in there :wink:
Jeff
 
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby Clownfish75 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:52 pm

Thanks for all the info guys.

Jeff normal post, i think you guys UPS over there, or fed ex i think comes through here. DHL also works.

I have avoided airstones previously as i didnt think they gave good bubble size, but might be worth checking again, the service sounds a bit difficult but who knows might be able to sort this out.

The skimmer is made from PVC pipe, so in reality i want ot actually upsize the skimmer unit itself to accomodate the air, kind of back to front but i figure its not such a bad idea.

The current skimmer has a neck of about 4-5inchs. ill check out pvc pipe prices today.

I am leaning a bit more towards playing with the pump idea rather than the airstones as i am part of the way down that path, and service is not somethign i have heaps of time for.

Christian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby Jeff » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:11 pm

PM me your address and I'll check and see what it would cost.
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby lance » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:07 am

I would check out some RK2 Protein Skimmer's if you want good skimming.

lance
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoralMan24

http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/lancelesko/

Always quarantine new arrival's before adding to breeding tank's or display
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby Clownfish75 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:44 am

I know Lance, only hitch is i kind of like keeping my meager funds i have, not just forking it out to others!!! Its bad enough as it is!

I have seen people doing modifications to RK2 skimmers also.

Can anyone over there tell me are mazzi still considered worth it for venturis or are they just old outdated technology?

Christian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby Jeff » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:52 am

Nothing personal Lance...but, RK2 skimmers are NOT that great. They are extremely power hungry, outdated technology, and just don't perform that well. THe reason large systems (10000g +) go with RK2 skimmers is simply that there is nothing else available for systems that size. Christian's system just isn't that big...there are plenty of skimmers available for a system His size at a lower cost that will perform better.

Mazzei injectors ARE pretty old school, but they still work okay. You will run into the same problem you have now with the beckett's...mazzei's need large power hungry pressure rated pumps.

Like mentioned before, your most economical (power friendly) options are going to be an air stone skimmer (an AL40 air pump can put out 50lpm of air at 120w), or a PW pump (our 1500 that you are looking at does ~40lpm at 71w on 110v).

We run our 1000g SPS prop system with 110w of skimmer, and under 1000w total system consumption (we run in a GH, so lighting is not necessary).
Jeff
 
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby amashun » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:01 pm

agreed, beckett skimmers are last decade technology and let's leave them in good memory. A laguna motor (red dragon/air star/ Askoll) should be easily archive to what we expect from these beckett skimmer with lesser power consumption and smaller body.

As mentioned before in the PM Chris, i though you were dealing with few thousand liter of water (something around 400G) and that's why i vote for laguna. I didn't aware that you are talking 1000G+ water in a fish farm hence my suggestion with airstone skimmer.

Just want to point out, Jonathan's skimmer is the ALITA AL-100 which i think around 100-120lpm according to the graph? (please do correct me if i'm wrong as i'm pretty bad at maths)
http://www.septicsolutions.net/store/alitaspecs100.htm

you can also use your current acrylic body for the neck of the airstone skimmer actually. or even sell that one to buy cheaper sheet of acrylic.

Anyway, i would be interested to see your final decision just for my curiosity side.

A
Cheers,
Adrian
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby lance » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:34 am

no offense taken at all guy's glad to hear your point's and now I can further some research to a better protein skimmer for my setups as well :D

lance
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoralMan24

http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/lancelesko/

Always quarantine new arrival's before adding to breeding tank's or display
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Re: Protien Skimmers

Postby skearse » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:23 am

Take it FWIW but I would second the use of a second skimmer (no pun intended), preferably using a different technology-particularly when needing to get that volume of air into the column. Adding a second skimmer, say NW/PW, allow you to continue to use what you've already got, and also give you a sort of backup in case on goes down or you take it down for cleaning. Not full capacity, but you've got something at least. I've also heard claims that using varying types (ie, beckett v. NW) provide better 'clean-up' for different pollutant types-the coarser bubbles have a higher removal rate for longer chain fats, oils & greases (FOG) while the finer bubbles will help with light ends clean-up [I may have those backwards; it's been about 10 years since I've worked with a DAF system and my aquarium systems honestly aren't large enough that it would make a difference]. Like Jeff mentioned, unless you end up with a monster column you just don't get the retention time to get great mass transfer.
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