Potential research priojects MOFIB might be interested in

Potential research priojects MOFIB might be interested in

Postby Clownfish75 » Sat May 31, 2008 5:02 am

I have been considering what research info could be undertaken under the banner of MOFIB.

My ideas so far revolve around clownfish.

Bar development in Perculas, nitrate, ammonia, O2, CO2, pH
Growth in Ocellaris
Mis-formed bar determination
Effects of skimming, sulphur filter, pH, live algae, dead algae on larvae.
Temp and growth rate in clowns.
Brood diet.

Just ideas, dependsing how things pan out with the banggai challenge these ideas may have more meaning in a year or 2.

Christian
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Postby Spracklcat » Sat May 31, 2008 7:36 am

I'd like to add the use of probiotics in ornamental aquaculture. I have been reading a ton of papers on this lately, everything from probiotics being helpful in larval rearing by outcompeting pathogens and stimulating immune response, to probiotics added to packing bags improving shipping water quality. Perhaps not a sexy subject, but one that is potentially quite useful.
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Postby mpedersen » Sat May 31, 2008 9:34 pm

Adelaide (Ladygator) gave a great presentation @ IMAC on Friday and part of her talk was specifically covering probiotics (the one sticking out in my head at the moment is Lactobacillis)...VERY interesting ideas....

Matt
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Postby Spracklcat » Sat May 31, 2008 10:19 pm

Smart one, that Ladygator. :) We'll have to chat about it--
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Postby KathyL » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:05 am

Agreed.
I had an interesting chat at dinner this evening (IMAC banquet) with the guy who is selling fish food with a variety of probiotics mixed in. I asked him if there was any data that probiotics took up residence in the fish gut, and he said that he is sure they do not. He also said that lactose bacillus ( not sure if i am naming/spelling that correctly), one of the major probiotics, would not take up residence in cow gut either, if fed to cows. The bacillus is cultured to grow well in stainless steel for production purposes, and will not tolerate conditions in stomach of animals. He said he did think that it helped water quality somehow, but I am not real clear on why he thought that.

So here is a guy selling fish food, who seemed quite knowledgeable about fish growth, survival, breeding requirements, etc., and seemed to know of data that does not support what we suppose is the advantage of probiotics in his feed, and who was honest enough to tell me about it. I find that rather compelling, and I am anxious to try his feed. We also spoke at length about proteins in fish feed, and their kind, importance, and the effects of substituting protein for the carbohydrate normally found in feeds.

I enjoyed talking to him.

I also enjoyed Adelaide's talk. Especially the part where she shows the graphs of vibrio concentration in water of larval fish (small) and the concentration of vibrio in larval gut (large). It was as though the larvae were pulling it out of the water and culturing it in their gut. It was quite striking. The next experiment was not done however, and it will be truly compelling evidence of the effect of probiotics, if someone could do a similar experiment and show the dissappearance of vibrio in larval gut with pro-biotics treatment. That would be truly illuminating.

Given what my dinner companion was telling me, it may not happen the way we might think. A little more data is still needed, though.

:D :D
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Postby KathyL » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:10 am

Christine,
Can you pass along PDFs of those papers? Or author names? Journal Titles. Sometimes I can find stuff at work...
Thanks,
K
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Postby Spracklcat » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:31 am

Will do, by tomorrow latest (I hope). I tried getting some of the commercial probiotic solution used in one of the papers, but they wouldn't send me any. Will have to try again (and start a new thread :) )
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Postby Spracklcat » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:01 am

Sorry, just read the first post (reading backwards in Google Reader)

I'm not sure I entirely agree with your fish food friend. I'm going from memory, so I'll correct this is I am off. There are certainly bacteria which live in fish guts, cephalopod organs, bivalve guts--they may just not be the ones that are being cultured and sold as probiotics. These resident bacteria do the same thing as ours do--convert food items into useful vitamins or other compounds which are used by the animals. For example, bivalves eat phytoplankton, then the mycosporine-like amino acids (MAA's) are chemically altered by the gut bacteria into other MAA's which are sent to the ovaries. These MAA's, which act as UV absorbers, are concentrated in eggs, where they protect the genetic material of the egg from degradation by UV.

So my question to the food guy would be, why do you put the bacteria in if you know it does nothing? Has there been testing done on this? BTW many products we use every day have ingredients in them which do nothing other than make the product more attractive to consumers--look at any shampoo bottle :P )
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Postby spk » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:52 am

Slightly off topic, but it sounds as if you all enjoyed IMAC.
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Postby aantreklik_jared » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:56 am

the antigen coat of inactive bacteria would still illicit a immunological response in the fish gut... much in the way that beta-glucan does in mammalian and piscean digestion... it is the un-recognised protein signature that stimulates immunostimulation. I am not sure it is technically pro-biotics if the adjuvant (the thing attached to the antigen... in this case the bacteria) is not compatible with the digestive tract of the target organism... but without having done much research in the area, I would hazard a guess it could still be useful in providing general immunity...
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