Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby mpedersen » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:52 pm

For those not familiar with the species - http://sealifeinc.net/catalog/product_i ... ucts_id=42

I've been thinking about this species for quite some time, especially since I've been re-reading Thresher's comments on Anthias and the related groupers several times (in an effort to identify as much info as I can on my Fathead Anthias projecT).

Apparently, Serranus tortougarum matures very small (3" max), mature at 1 year of age, pelagic spawner and a simultaneous hermaphrodite. Apparently this group of mini groupers also have relatively large "pelagic" larvae for a pelagic spawner. Thresher refers to one as being "almost direct development". What this means is that they may be a rather easy pelagic spawner to break your chops on.

The added bonus is that apparently you only have to buy 2 to be 100% sure you have a pair, and at least here in the US they are typically downright cheap fish to get. Might make a perfect candidate for a 2009 breeder's challenge.

Anyone spawned or tried to rear these (or similar)?

Matt
mpedersen
Read-Only
 
Posts: 9215
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:53 am

Postby mpedersen » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:18 pm

Found some links...

All Scientific Journal Related:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q67p8m31r005knu3/
http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/46/4/439
http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_edpik/ls_4.htm
http://darwin.uky.edu/~sargent/research.htm - project underway

General:

http://www.reef-visions.com/forums/inde ... 823.0;wap2

It would seem that no one is really trying this species in the aquarium field, no doubt due to their cheap price and relatively "subtle" appearance when compared to something like NEMO :)

Matt
mpedersen
Read-Only
 
Posts: 9215
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:53 am

Postby William » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:01 pm

Looks like a great canidate to me.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Postby David M » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:52 am

The chalk bass has long been on my list and in fact I had a pair for several months before my Caribbean 125 was cooked by a faulty heater. The only real problem from a practicle standpoint is the value, they are worth all of about $3 at wholesale. My thinking at the time was to practice with the chalk bass and then try the harlequin whch is worth considerably more.
Seahorse Aquatics Current Availability List: http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39000
David M
 
Posts: 977
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:10 am
Location: San Diego ( La Mesa)

Postby Peter Schmiedel » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:09 am

Excellent idea!

I am trying to get my hands on a group as they are small and peaceful and make excellent candidates to ensure other fish that all is safe. Remember I have all pairs in reef tanks. But even at wholesalers there are only one or two availably.
Take care
Peter
Peter Schmiedel
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:39 am
Location: Belgium

Postby robinscp » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:40 pm

I bought six for my reef tank believing that they would shoal and be peaceful.

I am left with 2 reclusive fish that I believe are a pair.

I may move them to a 10g and see how they fair.
User avatar
robinscp
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:53 pm
Location: Hull, England, UK
State/Region: Hull
Country: UK

Chalk Bass

Postby BATurner » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:36 pm

I did the same, I purchased one at first (it was all we had at the store) and then added two more about a week later when the shipment came in, also hoping to get a nice little group of them. Same outcome though, one of the two later added kicked the bucket (serpent star had a tasty meal) but the remaining two are always out in the current. Havent made any real attempts to spawn beyond daily feeding and light cycle.

The pair shares a 140g with a pair of flame hawks, one bluethroat trigger, sixline wrasse, and a blue dart goby.

Any suggestions to improving success is much appreciated! :)
BATurner
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:07 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby jgs240 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:06 pm

Well i found another to put on "the list". This sounds like a nice subject fish!
jgs240
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:06 am
Location: Mid-West USA

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby Beaun » Wed May 12, 2010 12:36 pm

After reading this thread I added a second chalk bass into my 65 gallon with an existing chalk bass I have had for about a year. The one I added was significantly smaller then the existing one. After about a day the existing bass accepted the new chalk bass without any more issues. ~Two weeks later they are both comfortable with each other and seem to have "bonded" with one another. I'm sure it will be a long time before any spawning occures, but does anyone know their spawning behavior? (sunset, moonlights, or after moonlights?). They are in a tank with a pair of black and white clowns, a yellow-banded possum wrasse, yashia goby, C. argi, and a Halichoeres leucoxanthus wrasse.
User avatar
Beaun
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:45 am

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Wed May 12, 2010 1:15 pm

Nice. Good luck with them. It's been my experience that pelagic spawners often condition and spawn sooner than demersal spawners (less energy spent per egg). I haven't worked with this species, though, so I can't help you with specifics.
Andy

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” --Mark Twain
User avatar
"Umm, fish?"
Read-Only
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby Beaun » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:31 am

This may be anecdotal but I have noticed my existing chalk bass' colors to be significantly more intense then it was prior to adding a second chalk bass, especially around the faceand just behind the eye.
User avatar
Beaun
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:45 am

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby Beaun » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:12 pm

Finally got an OK picture of my "pair".

Image
User avatar
Beaun
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:45 am

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby Luis A M » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:36 pm

So gorgeous! :shock:
Isn´t this blue shade enhanced by actinics? :?
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby snowmaker » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:20 am

I'm glad I came across this. I will have to look for another one. My first one was maybe $10 and I like it. Could be a future project. A picture in 120g. Fish is about 2.5":
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.
--Aristotle
User avatar
snowmaker
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:42 am
Location: Maine, USA

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby Beaun » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:23 am

Yeah the blue will pop more with actinics, this shot is actually taken under full "daylight", just a bad picture so it doesn't look like it. I believe they may have started spawning, I didn't catch the act, but I did see what looked like the "aftermath" of a spawning event; I'm keeping vigilent in my watch for it.
User avatar
Beaun
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:45 am

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby snowmaker » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:59 pm

I picked up another one last weekend and have it in a 10g w sand and rock plumbed into a larger system of around 160g.
The new one is smaller at around 2".
Now to catch the first one and transfer to the 10g.

The 10g is fed via MJ1200 and drains via internal overflow and 1" bulkhead. There is a foam filter block cut to fit tight in overflow.
I'm a total newb to fish breeding "on purpose", and not sure if I'm going in the right direction here or not. ANY suggestions are appreciated.
One of the articles above indicated:
"They spawn in the late afternoon on a daily basis in the tropics, where individuals release pelagic eggs (<1 mm in diameter) that are externally fertilized and begin a planktonic part of the life cycle."

I'm not sure how to capture or what to feed yet, but will spend some time researching here.
I have in the past, and can grow micro algae and have a rotifer culture going now and harvest them for feeding reef display. They get concentrate phyto (from the 'fridge).
I should (and would like to) learn how to culture T. iso and A. tonsa. I recently got info from a university dept. head on where I can get a T. iso start, so will look into that.
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.
--Aristotle
User avatar
snowmaker
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:42 am
Location: Maine, USA

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:28 pm

A 10 gal. sounds pretty small for a pelagic spawning fish. Remember, they have to make a rush up towards the surface and you don't want them to break the water (and maybe end up on the floor). Now's also your chance to think about how you'll get the eggs out of there. How will you collect them?
Andy

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” --Mark Twain
User avatar
"Umm, fish?"
Read-Only
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby snowmaker » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:00 am

Thank you,
I was unsure if the 10g would be big enough.
I do have a 20 or 29 that I can make same internal overflow / bulkhead combo for.
If swimming larvae, I can try to collect w / snagger I ordered on here, and if eggs, I can try to rig a fine media bag or hack up a 200um sock to fit inside overflow box, (instead of the filter sponge).

I am so glad I made a 10' stand for my 4', 120g display as I have lots of project room. I will cut some glass for overflow today and see if I can get the 29g ready.

I might be able to come up with a tall hexagonal tank. Would this be even better?
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.
--Aristotle
User avatar
snowmaker
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:42 am
Location: Maine, USA

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:04 am

Taller is better. They will have pelagic eggs (they fertilize eggs externally and on-the-fly, the eggs float for a couple of days before hatching). It's easy to collect pelagic eggs _if_ you set things up in right in the beginning. You want a gentle slope from the top of the bass tank down to a large external overflow. It has to be big enough in there to get an egg collector under the water coming in from the bass tank before the water heads back to the sump.

On nights you want to collect, you turn the flow to the tank way down, insert the collector, and wait for the eggs to come to you. Remove and turn the water back up and you are done.
Andy

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” --Mark Twain
User avatar
"Umm, fish?"
Read-Only
 
Posts: 3119
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby snowmaker » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:33 am

Super!
Thank you. That makes sense to me.
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.
--Aristotle
User avatar
snowmaker
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:42 am
Location: Maine, USA

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby snowmaker » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:31 pm

Brought home what looks like a 30 or 35 Tall, freebie, but upon closer inspection outside in good light.... I'm not willing to risk it.

I have here a 24x12x16 - 20g, or should I look for a 20XH (20x10x24) or 30XH (20x12x24)? I have option to plumb into 165g system or put on it's own 40b sump / refugium.

Regarding collecting, after seeing and reading the post / pdf here:
viewtopic.php?f=140&t=7017#p71837

... and have an idea of what I can do. It would seem the gentler the capture technique, the better.
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.
--Aristotle
User avatar
snowmaker
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:42 am
Location: Maine, USA

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby snowmaker » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:21 am

Still on the hunt for a taller vessel, but not sure what will work for me. Even looking around the bass section here I do not see any reference to breeding tank volume / height suggestions except for:

Postby mpedersen » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:00 am
Li, what size tank are they in now? Remember, all my pelagic spawners are going in less than 16" of vertical height! :)


I can put my hands on:

20 gallon High 24" x 12" x 16"
29 gallon 30" x 12" x 18"
20 X High 20 x 10 x 24
30 X High 24 x 12 x 24

or... a heavy blue plastic barrel about 26" - 28" tall, and 17"- 18" diameter. I can cut a viewing window as shown in Matt Witt's book.
... at some point in the future I may try breeding Mandarin fish and hope to use same vessel.

I am looking for suggestions, or some direction here please.

Thank you!
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.
--Aristotle
User avatar
snowmaker
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:42 am
Location: Maine, USA

Re: Breeding Atlantic Chalk Bass, Serranus tortugarum

Postby snowmaker » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:55 pm

I finally trapped my first one today and got it in with the newer one. They seem to be tolerating each other ATM.
Hopefully be able to start my first log on mofib soon.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.
--Aristotle
User avatar
snowmaker
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:42 am
Location: Maine, USA


Return to Other Bass



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron