Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Wed May 07, 2008 8:43 pm

Image
At least I could take a decent pic of one of my dotties,the larger,dominant one.Both look the same.The vertical stripes,that show only occasionally,can be seen here.
These fish are bold and aggressive,and all my efforts to mate them were in vane.Last time the smaller was badly beaten.I used a partitioned ten g.,guess they need a larger tank.
I think Peter is right with the ID,Pseudoplesiops typus.What you people think?
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Postby William » Wed May 07, 2008 10:11 pm

Luis, your fish does not remind me of P. typus at all. Your fish looks much more like Ogilbyina queenslandiae or O. novaehollandiae.
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Postby Peter Schmiedel » Thu May 08, 2008 1:33 am

Luis,

your fish is for sure not a Pseudoplesiops. Head form does not match.
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Re:

Postby Luis A M » Thu May 08, 2008 4:32 pm

acroporas wrote:Luis, your fish does not remind me of P. typus at all. Your fish looks much more like Ogilbyina queenslandiae or O. novaehollandiae.

It does.But Ogilbyna is only from Australia?.This fish comes from Indonesia.We don´t get shipments from Australia here :?
What about Labracinus?
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Postby William » Thu May 08, 2008 5:30 pm

The body shape is right for Labracinus, but I have not seen any images of Labracinus that match that pattern.

Even if all your shipments come from Indonesia, I would not completely rule out oz. It could be caught in oz, first shipped to indo and then on to Argentina. Perhaps unlikely, but not impossible.
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Postby Witt » Sun May 11, 2008 1:05 am

Luis,

Your observations of bold are an understatement for this one. This is Labracinus cyclophthalmus. They have been successfully reared. Very similar to L. lineatus, but pairing is a big challenge. The Baensch atlas has a short write up on rearing.
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Postby Luis A M » Sun May 11, 2008 1:28 am

Right,thanks!.And it also shows the vertical marks.Guess my fish have a lot to grow and colour up.
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Postby Luis A M » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:22 pm

Well,Witt was right about the ID.I a m the (proud? :roll: )owner of a pair of L.cyclophtalmus,said to grow up to 20 cm and one of the meanest of dotties.
The male reached 9cm and outgrew the 10g so they were moved to a larger partitioned tank.A firefish dissapeared in the section of the female.Although about the same size,I suspect she had something to do :roll:

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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:24 pm

UPDATE
Almost one year later,and the fish kept growing in their partitioned 130x40x40cm community tank.Surprisingly the largest fish changed to female colours;dark overall,with black fins and a red spot in the belly area.The smaller male became a brighter orange-red with red fins.
This points that this fish is a protogynous sequential hermaphrodite,like clownfish,with the larger and more powerful member of the pair becoming a female.This is unusual,as most other seq.herm.are protandric,even in the pseudochromid family.

Lately,the female developed a full belly and I was facing the very difficult task of putting them together,hoping for them to mate or at least to keep them in one piece.These are large and very vicious fish.If you have ever tried to put two Pictiochromis together,imagine what fish with this size and power could do...My previous attempts,when the fish were younger and smaller almost resulted in murder in short time :roll:

Following the methods employed by Matt W.and Matt P.,I replaced the glass partition (which was almost opaque due to algal growth) with an eggcrate fence,where I had cut an opening which could be closed easily and fast from above the tank.The purpose of this gate is to allow the two fish to be together when they are ready to spawn.
The fence offered the fish a closer contact with each other than the dirty glass,not only they could see but also smell and feel the "real presence" of each other.After some agressive display,the female charged against the fence,like willing to break it open and catch the male and kill it.It was a scary scene,I had to reinforce the fence,so that id did not fall down.Later on, some of this killing frensy had subsided,and the female had a bruised nose.

One week later,the fish were mostly ignoring each other,so I tried the first "opening the gate" trial.The male moved to the larger (3/4) female´s quarters and in no time they engaged in a terrible fight.The smaller male didn´t lose terrain and when the fish were finally isolated,both showed body and fin wounds and the male remained distressed for some time.

2nd round (next week end) showed some more display that could be descript like courting or agression inhibition ritual,which in these nasty fishes is about the same.It was similar to damsel´s courting,and also some running with the tail raised,like exposing the vent.Then a fight followed,but afterwards,while I was waiting for the male to return to his place and lock him in,I noticed that they crossed their ways without much agression.

3rd round (this week end),the fight was minimal,without any damage,and the courtship display was more prevalent.This time I dared to leave the gate open for the night.The fish were well the following morning.There was no more courtship and the male took the dominant role now and tended to remain behind some coralwork in the female´s section.If she came closer,he would rise as a warning and she would display some submission posture,but without any real agression.On other ocassions both fish swam minding their own business.
I am leaving the (opened)fence in situ just in case and also to provide a sort of territorial partition.But knock on wood,it seems I was lucky and I could meet success in that risky game.Now I have a loving mated pair of Labracinus in the same tank 8) And I guessed they spawned somewhere under the coral-rockwork :? and not in the PVC pipes provided :x

This kind of method can be useful for mating other very agressive species. :wink:
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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby KMB » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:34 pm

I hadn't heard of this method. I'm going to try it with my P. porphyreus since I can only keep them in separate tanks now which is not so conducive to spawning. I hope my results are as good as yours. :)
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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:24 pm

KMB wrote:I hadn't heard of this method. I'm going to try it with my P. porphyreus since I can only keep them in separate tanks now which is not so conducive to spawning. I hope my results are as good as yours. :)

Karen,this is shown in:http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=211&t=1569 (breeding basket)
and in Witt´s book (a divider with holes).
It seems that receiving some not deadly beating turns the victim into a submissive tolerated condition.Nice,huh! :wink:
In the old BR someone reported a so abbused P.flavivertex male changed to female colour,I don´t remember if it finally spawned.
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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby KMB » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:14 am

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of more information. I appreciate it.

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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:49 am

The pair remains getting along.I noticed spawning activity under the coral rock where the male hangs now,at 7pm,3hrs before lights off.Courting activity ceased,but the male is not much agressive to the female when she swims close.Better than expected! 8)
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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:41 pm

Two days later,the male abandoned the nest site and moved to the opposite end of the tank where he is exploring some of the PVC pipes.Later I found the egg mass loose in the tank.

Image

Image

The eggs are large,about 1 mm.(1,000 mics),which means large,easy larvae could be expected.
This spawn is probably not fertilized.Anyway,I´m tumbling it in a bs hatcher :roll:
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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:32 am

As suspected,the eggs were not fertile. :(
Surprisingly,the little remaining agressive behaviour dissapeared and the pair is getting along like a loving mated couple.This was not expected,as these fish are described as very nasty,the most agressive of the family,by several authors. 8)
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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Clownfish75 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:57 am

HI Luis

Yeh devil incarnate would have been my description for this species!!!

I have 4 Mcculochs dottyback (oblique line if i must call them that) 2 female and 2 males. I have found that aggresion comes and goes, and that fertile and non fertile eggs seem to come and go also. The current ball looks fertile, i can see eyes, but the last batch from the other pair was infertile.

I should add chopping and changing the males and females has yielded eggs every which way. along with a female of some unknown dottyback, possibly P. cyanotaniea, spawned all by itself with only an ocellaris to belt the begebers out of.

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Re: Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:39 pm

And yet these fish are now compleatelly peaceful :shock: I am considering to remove the security fence.
Nice 12 cm peaceful beasts 8) The male is now a gorgeous vermillion.
They spawned again,14 days after,in the same spot.Not inside any of the PVC pipes provided nor in his previous territory,but in the opposite side of the tank,under an arch formed by a large coral piece.The egg mass hangs from the roof of this arch and is almost constantly cared by the male.Brooding males are particularly aggresive to their mates,but this fish keeps in the "peace and love"mode. :o
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Re: Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:58 pm

On day 3,again the egg mass was abandoned by the male.The mass is larger,6x5x1cm.This time some of the eggs are fertilized.

Image

Embryos are well developed and motile,with pigmented eyes

Image

Image

I put the egg mass in a tumbler,those inverted soda bottles used to hatch artemia.
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Re: Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby FuEl » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:16 pm

Giant egg mass.. :shock:
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Re: Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:46 pm

FuEl wrote:Giant egg mass.. :shock:

Indeed,about the size of half a hamburger! :D If all the eggs were fertile,I´d face serious logistic problems to raise them all! :roll:
And I want to stress again how peaceful this mated pair is,as some people still disbelieve :wink: For some reason the female shows permanently the faint light vertical bars which were related to stress.It must be a submissive sign for the male... :? (See the first pic of this thread)
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Re: Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:59 pm

Three larvae hatched on 4th day.They look like having have hatched prematurely,but they manage to swim to the surface.

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Image

They measure 4.6 mm TL.Look like a newly hatched clownfish,perhaps longer.I am going to treat them as clown larvae,10g tank,14 hr L,rots,NAN paste.The egg mass was also put in the larval tank.
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Re: Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:01 pm

Removed the egg mass for inspection.It was milky and stinky,with all embryos dead.Not,all,a larva popped out and was recovered and taken to the tank.
The 3 larvae are fine,they are longish like neon goby larvae,and close to 1 cm long,I won´t collect them to check.
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Re: Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Luis A M » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:20 pm

The three larvae are doing well,feeding on rots.They are big and adapt well to the clown´s protocol.I started with bbs at day 5 and began a drip from system water.They are at day 6 today,with bbs full bellies. 8)
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Re: Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby FuEl » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:09 pm

BBS at day 5 is considered damn fast for dottybacks!
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Re: Breeding Labracinus cychlophtalmus

Postby Clownfish75 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:28 am

hmmm my mccs are 7 days and no point in bbs yet!!

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