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Marine Ornamental Fish & Invertebrate Breeders • View topic - The eggs of C. ferrugata

The eggs of C. ferrugata

The eggs of C. ferrugata

Postby Bandeng » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:45 pm

I found a single egg of Centropyge ferrugata this morning. They supposed to have spawned last evening. But I did not notice any spawning behavior.

Image

I would like to gather more eggs. I keep a pair in a glass tank of 150 L with a canister filter. There is no other fish there. I would like to have your advice how to effectively collect the eggs.

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Re: The eggs of C. ferrugata

Postby mpedersen » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:46 am

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Postby Bandeng » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:11 pm

Matt, thank you for your advice. I was able to collect some 100 eggs last night. They are so small and beautiful. I am trying to follow their development.

Image

How long do they continue to spawn? Do they spawn lunar periodically? The last night was their third day of spawning.

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Postby mpedersen » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:50 pm

I don't know about Centropyge ferrugata, I can only speak from my experiences with my Centropyge argi, which have been spawning NIGHTLY for MONTHS now....nonstop. I wouldn't be surprised that provided you kept pumping your broodstock full of good quality food, they'll keep producing spawns nightly!

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Postby Bandeng » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:42 pm

Matt,

Thank you again. I will try to feed good foods to them. I was able to collect 220 eggs last night. I will try to improve my collection technique.

The eggs started to hatch out around 17 hours after spawning. The development of the head region, compared to other fish larvae I have handled, seems very slow. They should develop much further in two days (?) to start feeding by the time they have mouth opened.

Image

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Postby aomont » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:53 pm

Hi Bandeng ! Nic photos as always ! ;)
At which temp were the eggs incubated ?
If you think that a 17h incubation period is consistent with the next hatches, may I add the information to the overview ?
Anderson.
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Postby Bandeng » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:43 pm

Hi! Anderson,

I have not checked the incubation time for the next batch of eggs. I will try to check the time. For the first one, it was around 26 degree Celsius during the incubation.

Iwas able to collect about 500 eggs last night. At least my collection technique is improving. The following photo is the larva of 18 hours after hatch. There is no eye pigmentation yet and with big yolk no opened mouth yet.

Image

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Postby mpedersen » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:04 pm

Bandeng, this is incredible. THANKS for taking the time to post all these photos and information. I'm so glad to hear that egg collection is improving...500 eggs sounds like a fair amount to get - sounds like they're spawning nightly for you then?

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Postby Bandeng » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:01 am

The hatching of the eggs collected last night (presumably spawned 19:00 HRS) started to hatch at 10:30 today and they were still hatching at 15:00. This time the temperature was between 25 to 27 degree Celsius.
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Postby Bandeng » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:51 pm

Thia is the third day after their hatch. Due to low temperature (25.3 C), the mouth opening was a bit delayed. So that the mouth was being open but not complete yet. The eye pigmentation also is on the way. A pair of pectoral fin was visible. Total length was about 2.6 mm. Yolk was almost gone but a small portion of oil globule (OG) still remain.

Image

I was able to collect about 1,500 eggs (volumetric estimation) last night.

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Postby Luis A M » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:01 am

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Postby Bandeng » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:09 am

Luis,

The egg collection was carried as suggested by Matt. And the eggs were incubated in a small rectangular plastic case (water volume; about 2 L) with gentle fine aeration.

Image

It seems that the mouth width is between 100 and 130 micron. My SS rotifer may not pass their mouth. Besides, their yolk reserve has been gone already except a small yolk globule at the time of their mouth opening. The eye pigmentation for the functional eye sight also is not completed yet. It means they are not given much time to succeed in their first feeding.

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Postby sanjay » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:37 am

Bandeg;

What equipment are you using to take the pictures and view the eggs.

Awesome !!

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Postby Bandeng » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:48 pm

Thank you Sanjay. I use two microscopes and a camera (Nikon Coolpix 4500). I use a dissecting microscope for lower magnification and a half a century old ordinary microscope for higher magnification. I put a ocular micrometer for the latter (1 grid is 8.6 micron for x100). I simply attach the camera lens to the ocular lens of microscope. That's all I do to take all of these photos.

The photo below is the larva of day 4. The total length is about 2.7 mm. There still be a small oil globule left. The mouth (1) is completly formed with pigmented eyes (2) and a pair of functional pectoral fins (3). Now the larva may be able to sight a prey, position against the prey and move forward toward the prey with opened mouth. The mouth width may be around 100 micron.

Image

I collected about 1,700 eggs last night.

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Postby joefrith » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:49 pm

Wow. They look awesome. Do you think theirs any chance now of them taking the ss rot's?
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Postby Bandeng » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:12 pm

Joefrith,

Yes, at least one larva took SS rotifers. The photos below shows you the fact. I took three larvae to check their gut contents. One (Poto 1) of them had something in the gut. (Photo 2). The photos 3 and 4 are the enlargement of "something". Actually they are trophi of rotifer. The rotifer (Photo 5) has a
pharyngeal apparatus (Photo 6) called trophi. I thought the larva of the Rusty Angelfish at initial feeding stage has a mouth too small for the rotifer to pass through. But I was wrong.

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Postby mpedersen » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:39 pm

Extremely interesting!!!!!

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Postby joefrith » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:38 pm

Where can I get some ss rots? :D
Last edited by joefrith on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bandeng » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:57 pm

It is Day 6 today. If my calibration is correct the larva has a big mouth already. The mouth width is 170 micron (Photo 2), which is wide enough for the average size SS rotifer can path through. There is only a few left in the tank. I may challenge growing them with the another batch based on the information obtained from the first batch.

Image

THe photo at the bottom is the eggs collected last night at around 20:00 HRS. I was a able to collect more than 2,000 eggs.

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Postby Luis A M » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:54 am

Amazing! :shock: Morulae,I guess...
The blue-green margin is an artifact?
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Postby Bandeng » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:57 pm

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Postby coralhead317 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:08 pm

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Postby KMB » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:23 pm

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Postby Bandeng » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:02 pm

Karen,

I feed to my broodstock frozen mysids, frozen adult Artemia, and grnules all of which are availble at local pet shops.

They keep on spawning for 11 days already. The amount of eggs collected daily was 1,000-2,000 until the day before yesterday. I, however, was able to collect less than 500 eggs last night. I am worried that this might be the sign of the end of spawning. Let's see the collection tonight.

Another problem is that I cant bring the larvae beyond the day 6.

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Re:

Postby mpedersen » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:40 pm

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