Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:50 pm

1st hatch Dec 1
Day 1

Trapped a hatch last night. This morning I got them in to a 1g round fish tank on a stand in the frag tank where the brood stock lives (works). Too many to count, maybe 100+. Larvae tank is tipped a bit, w/ doubled up fine strainer cloth on top lip. Air is about 2+ bps and water fed via siphon from display at a low steady stream. SW system is around 160g, Ca reactor, skimmer, Carbon / GFO... 1.025sg, 77'F
BBS hadn't hatched as of 10am so I strained off some rotifers and a touch of nanno and added to larvae tank. I also added a tiny amount of finely ground NLS pellet.
BBS started to hatch around 11am. since I'm home today I've been adding them as they hatch and have more batches going.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:53 pm

As close as I can get:
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:05 pm

My experience with this is about 16 hrs worth, and during half of that I was sleeping, so please any suggestions are more than welcome.
I've gotten enough info here (many thanks!) to get myself started.
I have a couple questions:
This larvae tank is pretty small, should I consider moving them to a plumbed in 10g right away or soon? That's all set up and running. I'd just have to take the 1 fish and rock out of it. If I go to this should I leave or remove the established sand bed. I have an option to set up a 20L in same spot, although I'm not sure how dense of a BBS food I could keep in a tank that large.
I left the TX5 light over the frag tank off today. It is off to the side of the larvae tank. If I ran 3 of the 5 lamps, would this be too much light for the pep. larvae?

Thanks for looking
The plumbed in 10g:
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:37 am

I am giving this another go. I could not get even 1 shrimp larvae to live for a week let alone to settlement before and sadly, I do not know why.

Yesterday (10/21) I captured a release and immediately moved them to a 10g. Tank has cardboard covering all walls blocking most light. There is a coarse air stone in center running very light air volume.

I had bbs ready (hatched < 12 hrs old) and strained and adding bbs as they hatch. - I am using 2 disc hatcheries and cleaning and starting them on 12 hr rotation.
I have also added a pinch of frozen cyclops.

Water is 75% from 170g reef system and 25% new mixed. Tank has about 8 gal. in it.

Broodstock are triplets - 2 female, 1 male, in a 29g plumbed into the 170g system. They reside there with a male green mandarin and red female. all are eating NLS sm pellet, frozen enriched bs and frozen Marine Cuisine for Carnivores.

Comments and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Last edited by snowmaker on Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:03 am

I am wondering...

I think that the bbs density is sufficient but is it now possible to overpopulate the bbs?
Also considering the older the bbs get, the larger and less nutritious they get as well?
I just did a 1/2 gal. water change through a 53um sieve clamped to the inside of tank. Should I consider using a larger mesh that will allow me to siphon out bbs (but not shrimp larvae) as well?
Is there any advantage or detriment to adding a few drops of phyto concentrate daily - to allow post yolk sack bbs to gut load?
Does anyone think that shrimp larvae will eat 1 - 2 day+ old bbs, and would the nutritional profile of these bbs (with the phyto) be OK or not?

Thank you
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby Suzy » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:34 pm

Wow! Amazing photos! I love these tiny larvae. Have you lookesd aty one with a jewelers loop? They look like tiny little aliens!

I think adding a bit of phyto paste to enrich the bbs would be a wonderful idea. They would be nutritious and with the flow through water, I think the water quality would be ok.

I do think it is possible to have too many bbs, until the larvae get a bit older. But, if you keep the bbbs fed, they will continue to be nutritious until the larvae eventually consume them. But maybe add a tiny amount of newly hatched every day, so there are tiny bbs for the larvae.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:34 am

Thanks,

That was sort of my way of thinking as well.
I just counted 40 shrimp larvae (6.5 days old) and maybe missed 10 or so. Ammonia has been at or slightly less than .5 ppm at my water change schedule so I should probably step that up a bit and try to keep below .25 ppm. Any thoughts on this?

So, I WAS using a flow through method but could never get any larvae to survive so this round I have a separate 10g tank and doing 1x or 2x daily 10% water changes.

I do have a 30x jewelers loupe and yes they are crazy looking.

Oh - I found that using a 300um sieve clamped to inside tank wall to pull water out through allows me to extract bbs with water change and NOT shrimp. I think now I can use the 500um sieve and will try clamping it to inside of tank and placing a small reading lamp - LED over it and see if I can extract more "old" bbs. I'm guessing that if the bbs population is too high then it's harder to keep ammonia levels low.

My change water has been about 1/2 from my reef tank and 1/2 fresh. My thoughts are that the reef tank water has beneficial bacteria to help w/ ammonia. I have not verified this but the roughly 170g reef system measures 0 ammonia and is fairly heavily populated w/ fish and corals.

This is the most surviving L. boggessi I have ever had after 1 week.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby Suzy » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:00 am

Sweet! I use aged water from my tank now. It does have beneficial bacteria in the water column, and it is the right temp. I drip it right from the tank, one drop a second ,using a mason jar clipped to the edge of the tank. That way, I can't forget and drain the entire tank! (Not like Ive ever done that a dozen times before)

I would think getting out some of the bbs would help decrease the ammonia issue, but I bet that is only an issue for a little bit longer. Once the larvae get bigger, they start eating a lot more and they will clear the tank.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby EasterEggs » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:52 am

I haven't been successful yet either although I have tried 5 times now I think. I have been using 1 and 2 gallon fishbowl kriesels. I have got them to 11 DPH. I was using AmQuel to keep ammonia at zero - I would lose the larvae if it got to 0.5 ppm. The larvae always died if they settle out of the water column as well. I was feeding NHBBS and adding RotiGreen Omega to the kriesel water to enrich the BS as they got old enough to feed. I would end up getting a huge number of BS in the larvae tank, and don't have a large micron sieve to get them out, but that's what I was planning to do as well although I wouldn't keep the sieve in the larvae tank as it would hinder the flow pattern. I kept the kriesels lit 24/7 with just a 7.5 watt incandescent bulb, but I am not sure if that is correct or not as I never found any information regarding lighting.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:36 am

Thank you for the comments.

I haven't found anything regarding lighting either...

You have heard of or have the hobby grade nesting sieves, right? They are not "large" but I like them.
http://reefbuilders.com/2009/11/09/arte ... mp-direct/

I can't forget and drain the entire tank! (Not like Ive ever done that a dozen times before)

\
Ha ha... yea, and I've NEVER washed my kitchen floor with RO / DI water. :D

So, today is 9 days p.h. and I have even more than I thought. I counted around 60 yesterday while power was interrupted (for 23 hours...)
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:18 am

Lighting -
I have all sides of the 10g covered w/ cardboard and top is open. No artificial lighting. Tank is within a few feet of a North facing picture window. (I am in N. hemisphere) and only receives indirect, ambient light from outside.
The larvae seem to usually be distributed relatively evenly through out the tank.

I am going to try the Amquel to see if ammo will fall below .5ppm - .25 ppm, but continue my water change schedule - (daily about 2 gal now).
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:04 am

Thanks for the mention of Amquel. Yesterday I picked some up. Ammo was at .5ppm I poured 1/2 dose (for a 10g this is 1/2 tsp), checked 4 hrs later ammo was .25ppm. I dosed another 1/2 dose and checked 4 hrs later and ammo was 0ppm(last night).
This morning was 0ppm also.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby EasterEggs » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:19 am

You're welcome. :) Maybe that will be your answer. I do know about the nesting set of sieves from BSD. I ordered the artemia sieve from them, but should have got the set instead. I need to wait until I need a few more items otherwise shipping isn't worth it for me (I'm in Canada).
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:46 am

I'm bumming... This morning I can only see 1 larvae, I know there were close to 60 or so on Tuesday (two days ago).
Ammonia measures .25ppm right now. 13 days post hatch.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby EasterEggs » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:52 am

Ack, that sucks. :(
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby Suzy » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:56 pm

Keep trying. You will get it.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:35 pm

I'm reset and ready to go again.
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby Suzy » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:12 pm

Yes! Keep us posted!
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby snowmaker » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:45 am

Transferred a large release of larvae this morning. What I'll do different:
Closely monitor ammonia and using Amquel from the start.
Daily water changes and siphon tank bottom.
Feed less artemia naups. - guage about 3/4 of amount I was feeding (I believe I had too many in past)
Set up 300um - 500um sieve w/ clip-on LED light to siphon out older BBS.

Maybe too many changes...
What percentage of daily water changes are recommended?
In the past I was using about 1/2 large system water for water changes. Should I continue this or use all "new" (at least 48 hr.aged / fresh mixed) water
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby EasterEggs » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:33 am

I was told not to touch the tank (waterchanges) for the first 5-7 days. Can't remember who told me that...sorry.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby Suzy » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:18 am

I read that in witts book, too. I did better with my goby larvae when I did not do water changes at all.
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby EasterEggs » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:32 am

Does Witt have more than one book? I can't find any info on inverts in The Complete Illustrated Breeder's Guide...
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Re: Lysmata boggessi - snowmaker - First Attempt

Postby Luis A M » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:26 pm

Just that book (worth as lots of other fish books)AFAIK. :wink:
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