Fire shrimps

Fire shrimps

Postby avantage » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:35 am

My tank is a aqua medic anthias 120 600 litres. In the tank i have one porcelain crab three ribbon eels two fire shrimps,various soft corals,buttons,leathers,sun coral,gonipora and lots more,also baby fire shrimps lots of them,and the first lot were born in the middle of march and they are still alive and kicking.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:01 pm

Any pictures?
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby Luis A M » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:11 pm

"Umm, fish?" wrote:Any pictures?

Mysids are very hard to picture,they move very fast and in the shadows. :wink:
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby avantage » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:55 am

Luis A M, Thanks for the reply.So you think they are mysids shrimps and i have made a mistake thinking they are fire shrimps. Avantage.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby avantage » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:11 am

" Umm fish?" Thank you also for the reply, Yes i do have a film showing the shrimps in my tank but it,s 8mm.I will work on it to see if i can upload it some way,so all can see.Avantage.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby Luis A M » Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:55 pm

avantage wrote:Luis A M, Thanks for the reply.So you think they are mysids shrimps and i have made a mistake thinking they are fire shrimps. Avantage.

Definitely.But don´t take it bad,everybody take them for larval shrimp or larval fish.Larval shrimp require a special rearing system and even then are difficult to raise.Browse our threads... :wink:
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby avantage » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:56 pm

Luis A M, How did i know you were going to say that,I,m sorry to say you,ve got it wrong they are not mysids,or larval fish.I know they are difficult to rear.THEY ARE FIRE SHRIMPS! I have had them in my tank for five months.Avantage.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:03 pm

The problem is, larval shrimp are food for everything in your tank and are not very good at avoiding predation as they really need to live out where everything can find and eat them. Plus, larval shrimp need a very specific environment and very specific foods for very long periods of time in order to survive. Bumping on rocks and other stuff in a reef tank will kill them. Being run through pumps and powerheads will kill them. And all those corals and the adult shrimp will greedily eat them.

By the time mysids get to the size that they look like larval shrimp, they are adults and used to surviving. They don't need the same environment to survive as larval shrimp and they fend well living in hiding in reef tanks.

Luis is not trying to insult you. He's saying that the likelihood is that what you see are mysids. The percentages are so low (a snowball has a better chance in West Texas) that even one fire shrimp larvae would survive months in a reef tank--much less a whole bunch of them--that the assumption is that you are not seeing shrimp larvae. Take Luis' observations to heart here: He's probably the only person here who has ever managed to raise a cleaner shrimp past metamorphosis. Luis has been very good, both here and on Reef Central, about documenting his experiences and photographing all the various stages that cleaner shrimp larvae pass through on their way to becoming juveniles. Search through his posts and see if your experience matches.

Again I don't think Luis is trying to be mean at all. He's just telling you what the odds favor.

And if you want to try to raise shrimp larvae, he's definitely the guy to talk to.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby FuEl » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:50 pm

What colour are these shrimp?
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby Luis A M » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:33 pm

avantage wrote:Luis A M, How did i know you were going to say that,I,m sorry to say you,ve got it wrong they are not mysids,or larval fish.I know they are difficult to rear.THEY ARE FIRE SHRIMPS! I have had them in my tank for five months.Avantage.

Avantage,what makes you believe they´re fire shrimps? :? Any pics?
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby Luis A M » Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:48 pm

"Umm, fish?" wrote:The problem is, larval shrimp are food for everything in your tank and are not very good at avoiding predation as they really need to live out where everything can find and eat them. Plus, larval shrimp need a very specific environment and very specific foods for very long periods of time in order to survive. Bumping on rocks and other stuff in a reef tank will kill them. Being run through pumps and powerheads will kill them. And all those corals and the adult shrimp will greedily eat them.

By the time mysids get to the size that they look like larval shrimp, they are adults and used to surviving. They don't need the same environment to survive as larval shrimp and they fend well living in hiding in reef tanks.

Luis is not trying to insult you. He's saying that the likelihood is that what you see are mysids. The percentages are so low (a snowball has a better chance in West Texas) that even one fire shrimp larvae would survive months in a reef tank--much less a whole bunch of them--that the assumption is that you are not seeing shrimp larvae. Take Luis' observations to heart here: He's probably the only person here who has ever managed to raise a cleaner shrimp past metamorphosis. Luis has been very good, both here and on Reef Central, about documenting his experiences and photographing all the various stages that cleaner shrimp larvae pass through on their way to becoming juveniles. Search through his posts and see if your experience matches.

Again I don't think Luis is trying to be mean at all. He's just telling you what the odds favor.

And if you want to try to raise shrimp larvae, he's definitely the guy to talk to.

Andy,thanks for the kind words and for explaining the point so clearly 8)
We have seen many times here people telling about larval shrimp (or even fish larvae) dwelling in the rock crevices of their tanks and they invariably turn to be mysids.Upon finding,folks get dissapointed,sometimes frustrated,but never insulted. :roll:
I´d never say something is impossible,but I agree with you that having larval Lysmata,or any larva anyway,surviving and growing in a community aquarium is some of the closest thing to impossible that I could imagine...But let´s wait for the pics,miracles happen :wink:
Indeed mysids look very much like larval shrimp,to whom they are not related,they are not decapods,they´re kin of amphipods and isopods.Under the microscope,the likeliness is even stronger,they have each leg (pereiopod) split in two (endo and exopod) like larval shrimps. :shock:
This must have been the reason why the last larval stage of pennaeid (table) shrimp is called mysis.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby avantage » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:22 pm

Luis A M,My wife want,s to know how small are shrimp larval.Avantage, Thank you.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby Luis A M » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:28 pm

avantage wrote:Luis A M,My wife want,s to know how small are shrimp larval.Avantage, Thank you.

About 2.5 mm.Check pics at viewtopic.php?f=141&t=458
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby avantage » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:48 pm

FuEl, As for colour i,ve just had a look but i have to use a spy glass because they small and very quick they are a redish brown in colour.Many thanks avantage.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby spawner » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:18 pm

Do they run from the light?
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby PaulG » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:21 am

avantage wrote:FuEl, As for colour i,ve just had a look but i have to use a spy glass because they small and very quick they are a redish brown in colour.Many thanks avantage.


Considering they have been in your tank since mid March which is some 5 months ago, there size & colour should be clearly visible to the naked eye.

My avatar pic is that of a Redline Cleaner shrimp (Very very similar to blood shrimp, blood larvae is just a lot redder) larvae approx 136 days old & is 1" in size. No eyeglass required.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby spawner » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:38 am

I'm sure they are mysis or copepods.
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Re: Fire shrimps

Postby Amie » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:58 pm

Hello avantage,

I wanted to post to see if you have any update on this thread? Reading through it, there is a possibility that what you are seeing is mysis shrimp. If they are still in your tank, and still the same size, that's what you have. If they are getting bigger, then they are definitely something else.

I remember the first time I saw a mysis in my tank, I was totally convinced that I had a baby fish swimming in my tank. It swam a figure 8 pattern in a small crevice in a rock. It was too far away from the glass to see that it looked like a shrimp, so it looked like a small fish to me. It took a month before I was convinced that it wasn't getting any bigger. Now I have tons of those little critters in my tank, and they are very good for the tank. I was able to keep a mandarin dragonette in the tank for over 5 years because of those little gems. I have tried to culture them outside of my reef, but haven't been very successful yet. I'm going to try again in the next month with a new setup.
Here's a really bad picture of a full grown mysis shrimp, it's about 1/8" long
Image

If you'd like a better picture, I have a better camera now and could get one.

And here is a picture of a 14-day cleaner shrimp,
Image
They would look almost identical to a fire shrimp, but the fire shrimp might be more red at 14 days, I'm not really sure.
It doesn't really look like a recognizable shrimp yet because it hasn't settled. They swim vertically in the water column until they settle and then they look like real shrimp. This image is blown up so much that it's hard to tell how tiny it is, but it's significantly smaller than the mysis shrimp.


edited for spelling.
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