Breeding L.amboinensis

Postby Luis A M » Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:45 am

Everything was cool.Only that I found some hydroid patches with several dead zoeas trapped within. :evil:
So I moved all larvae into a clean tank. :roll:
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby Luis A M » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:15 am

Run 3 keeps going though with reduced numbers after the hydroid attack.
Z5 at 16 days.
Run 4 hatched.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby Amie » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:35 pm

What kind of lighting schedule do you use on your nursery?
User avatar
Amie
Moderator
 
Posts: 2029
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 7:57 pm
Location: US
State/Region: Utah
Country: USA

Re:

Postby Luis A M » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:16 am

Amie wrote:What kind of lighting schedule do you use on your nursery?

14L.But no direct light on the LST (larval shrimp tanks).
Run 3,rather few,still Z5 at 20 days
Run 4,lots of larvae,Z2 at 4 days.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby Luis A M » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:58 pm

Run 3 met disaster :evil:
At 23 days,lots dead and very few remain.Besides the polyp patch,there were many medusae in the water column.I stripped the tank clean and moved survivors to a clean one.12 larvae,9 Z5 and 3 Z6 :(
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby blacksnail » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:53 am

how do the jellys keep getting in there?
thats so freekin depressing dude.
blacksnail
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:16 pm
Location: usa

Re:

Postby Luis A M » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:36 am

blacksnail wrote:how do the jellys keep getting in there?
thats so freekin depressing dude.

Dunno.The hydroid thing is a mistery thriller :roll:
Depressing is when you care them for 5 months and they die :twisted:
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby blacksnail » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:03 am

are you useing ro water?
i dont know how hydroids reproduce other than budding but perhaps if your useing tank water there are little spores or something in it, or there on your filter, idk man thats nasty.

ive been folowing this for a while and idk it seems like you get close and then they all die.

i would be pluging up a UV filter to the water, running ro water, and doing massave water changes, heck i would have ust gotten frustrated and given up by now.l

have you ever thought of setting it up with live rock? and perhaps sand from your main tank? idk it seems like what your doing isnt working, maby try a different approch?
blacksnail
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:16 pm
Location: usa

Postby Luis A M » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:59 pm

No,tap water.
Beside budding new polyps and jellyfish,production of cysts is suspected.I imagine hydroids is the cause of larval shrimp failure and I won´t change my mind until I can get a hydroid free larval system.
So my aproach is fighting them and using possibly contaminated rocks and sand would be against this purpose.
Besides,as you might know,I did have some success with my method,so I don´t consider changing it very much. :wink:
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby blacksnail » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:45 am

why tap water?
it seems so....
disgusting.


the hydroids im familiar with spend years in the polyp stage before becomeing a medusa, and even then it runs around the tank for a good hour or so and then eather dies or gets sucked up by the Ehime.

i wouldnt think twice about useing the rock and sand from my main tank even with hydroids on it, idk perhaps mine are less agressive, they dont bother me and dont seem to be spreading at all.

if youve got hydroids anyway, why not give it a shot? the worst that can happen is that you get hydroids in your tank again... but thats whats been happening any way so what do you have to loose by experemeneting?
blacksnail
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:16 pm
Location: usa

Re:

Postby Luis A M » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:26 am

blacksnail wrote:why tap water?
it seems so....
disgusting.




Could you elaborate your thought?.We appreciate more rational opinions here at MOFIB.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby blacksnail » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:13 am

i dont know what the tap water over there is like but here in texas its pretty nasty.

becides all the chorine and all the forms of it that are used there is alot of amonia, nitrite, some nitrate, phosphate, apperently there is floride in it, im not real sure on that, the ph changes from day to day, and ive heard that there are alot of heavy metals in it. i know there is alot of iron in it becuase its kinda yellowish, and weve done experemnets with it in my highschool chemistry class lol.

i would not be surprised if there were copper in there too.

and after it rains the water treatment plants double the dose of most of there chemicals.

but in all fairness we are close to a refinery so alot of chemicals are needed in our tap water to clean it.

idk, i drink it lol i just dont use it on my fish tank, its good enough for me just not good enough for my fish.
blacksnail
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:16 pm
Location: usa

Postby SteveH » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:44 pm

Luis, I find your thread very interesting. I just went and read through your reefs.org chat with Rob Toonen again. It's been almost 10 years since that conversation and you are still dealing with the exact same problem that you had back then - hydroids. He gave you suggestions and said that you needed to deal with the hydroids before you would have any success raising amboinesis. He said they weren't coming from the BS cysts, but you insist that they are. Have you ever hatched brine shrimp, put them in a sterile environment and found hydroids? Has anyone that is reading this thread?

I also find it interesting that there are a couple of people on this thread that say they see signs of medusae, but they never develop into adult hydroids. It seems like you would want to take the time to figure out what's different in their tanks because maybe they aren't coming from the brine shrimp and there's a way to actually eliminate them for good.

As far as I am concerned, you deserve, more than anyone else on this board, to figured out how to raise these shrimp in mass quantities. Not just one or two because of some stroke of luck, but hundreds at a time. But that is not going to happen until you solve your immediate problem of hydroids. Just think how much easier your job would be if you didn't have to worry about the hydroids every single day. You would actually have the time to concentrate on raising the shrimp instead of focusing on saving their lives from being eaten.

I would like to suggest that you go back and read through your conversation with Rob. And I hope I don't offend you but swallow your pride and get rid of the hydroids. Stop accepting them as fact because I don't believe they have to be there and I don't believe that chemicals are the only solution.


Steve
SteveH
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:09 pm

Postby Luis A M » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:29 pm

Blacksnail,I guess you´re a reefer more than a breeder?.Fish people usually do fine with tap water.Salt is expensive,to add the expense of a RO system...
You´re close to Houston?.I lived in San Antonio and tap was OK,albeit hard and rich in carbonates.
If you read the old chat with Rob T.you´d see that I did have a problem with new water killing shrimps,which wasn´t solved by using distilled water...

Steve,thanks for the compliments but you are misjudging my affair with hydroids.It´s like your problem with terrorists.You know they are the problem,you hate them,you want to kill them,but you just don´t find the way.This is exactly how I feel about hydroids.
And I never sustained that they come in bs eggs,it´s a popular belief I am now exploring,see: http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1899
http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3091
for details of what it´s going on in the hydroids front.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby SteveH » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:28 pm

I have been following those threads as well.
SteveH
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:09 pm

Re:

Postby blacksnail » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:09 pm

Luis A M wrote:Blacksnail,I guess you´re a reefer more than a breeder?.Fish people usually do fine with tap water.Salt is expensive,to add the expense of a RO system...
You´re close to Houston?.I lived in San Antonio and tap was OK,albeit hard and rich in carbonates.
If you read the old chat with Rob T.you´d see that I did have a problem with new water killing shrimps,which wasn´t solved by using distilled water...



yea ive only ever raised cherry shrimp and some freshwater fish, cichlids mostly... i never realy had to do much, i just colected the babys and moved them into my tetras tank untill they were an inch or so and started to get a bit agressive. and then i also had a few runs with blue lobsters, also didnt do much, fed them, shook the babbys off the mom when the time came and had rather good results.

with salt water i do alot of coral and im not intrested in most fish so ive never tryed to breed any of them, my shrimp are always prego, but its a reef tank with lots of corals, other shrimps, a wrasse,a black saddle back, some gobys and cardnal fish and a blenny. nothing intresting, all of them eat little shrimp.

i dont know, my lfs is against tap water for reefs, im sure its not a problem with just fish ive just never done it. i dont have to buy an ro system beause 2 of the lfs in my area sell ro water pre-mixed and its just alittle more expencive than buying salt and doing it my self.

and you are the ONLY person ive ever talked to who has had a hydroid problem. ive read some things about them, and ive looked them up a time or two, but all of the regular salt water people i talk to, reef or not, have been able to kee them under controll if not berid themselves of hydroids. the only thing we all do the same is buy ro water from the lfs.
and the salt that the lfs uses is sechem, i dont know what type they get it in big bags. but i dont know, i do water changes regularly and i have never had an issue with water qualty. just something to think about.

my point is that if you have hydroids and cant get rid of them, try doing things completly different than usual and see if it works better or worse.
what do you have to loose?
blacksnail
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:16 pm
Location: usa

Postby Luis A M » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:32 pm

Oh yes,I will keep trying everything :wink:
But this was a shrimp thread :wink: .Go to the links posted above for hydroid discussions.Exciting things are happening there!
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby Luis A M » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:23 pm

And the shrimp thread is close to the end :(
Run 4 is all gone.Run 3 only one Z6.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby blacksnail » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:45 pm

what is all this z6 stuff?
its life stages right?
how manny are there?
and how do u tell them apart?
blacksnail
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:16 pm
Location: usa

Postby Luis A M » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:09 am

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... genumber=1

Right Zoea 1 etc are larval stages 8)
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby Zaita » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:07 pm

Hi Luis,
Are you cont to try and raise these shrimp?

Have you read the scientific paper:
Importance of light and larval morphology in starvation resistance and feeding ability of newly hatched marine ornamental shrimps Lysmata spp. (Decapoda: Hippolytidae) ?
Zaita
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:56 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re:

Postby Luis A M » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:47 pm

Zaita wrote:Hi Luis,
Are you cont to try and raise these shrimp?

Have you read the scientific paper:
Importance of light and larval morphology in starvation resistance and feeding ability of newly hatched marine ornamental shrimps Lysmata spp. (Decapoda: Hippolytidae) ?

Zaita,you mean again?See first post of this thread... 8) I quit with it till next year,their 5 months rearing time would fall on my Jan.vacations...
I don´t recall that particular paper,may be I had :? I read a lot of Lysmata papers!.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Postby Zaita » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:04 pm

I am reading through a few papers on L.Amboinesis at the moment in preperation for my own attempts to raise them. I am fortunate, in that working for a large scientific organisation I have access to many global articles that are stored online :)

In interesting one I have just finished is:
"Starvation resistance of early zoeal stages of marine ornamental shrimps Lysmata spp. (Decapoda: Hippolytidae) from different habitats"

Conclusion from this is: even having the shrimp Larvae without food for 6h after being released has a significant impact on their survival during the long-term and can even manifest as an inability to metamorph. So it's important to have a system setup that allows for immediate and continious feeding of the larvae.
Zaita
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:56 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

salinity increase ?

Postby christophe » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:43 pm

I am very new to reef aquaristic (not even a year) and I try to get a system where the micro fauna is sustainable and water quality beeing regulated with the minimum of technical equipment and manual intervention,

Maybe my comment is going to sound stupid or it has been already tested somewhere else but some fw schrimps mate in fw but only settle in sw to then return to fw.

I have also read the thread about hydroids and Luis your experiment shows that :"Medusae died when salinity was rised from 1.038 to 1.045."

So not knowing the life cycle of L.amboinensis the following questions came to my mind.

Could it be that the larvae stage occurs in a higher salinity environement than normal, meaning having to rise the salinity for the first X zoae stages
and then decreasing it till they molt in thee adult stage ?

maybe the larvae can quicker whithstand a salinity increase than the hydroids, or the salinity increase slows down the growth patern of the hydroids

Second, if I understood it right, those shrimps clean fishes of parasits,
What are they , what is their nutritional value and how does the shrimp learn to feed it self on a potential predator ? If the larvae doesnt know what it is going to feed on as an adult maybe its primar interest is to remain a larvae ?

please excuse the inapropriate jargon and once again bear in mind that I am very new to this facinating world

Many greatings and a big aplause for the magnificient work you already have achieved
Christophe


learn everyday, laugh every day too
christophe
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:42 pm
Location: Frankfurt, germany

Postby FuEl » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:09 am

A little info from my own unpublished data (don't think I'll ever get to getting it published, too many distractions at the moment).

Regarding larval starvation:
Larvae fed immediately after hatching showed no significant difference in survival up to zoea IV compared to larvae starved for 6, 12, 24 and 48 hours.

Larvae can be starved for up to 12h post-hatch without any significant impact on development time to zoea VI. Those starved for 24 and 48 hours exhibit significant extended development time from zoea III onwards.


Regarding salinity:
Larvae can tolerate salinities between 25 to 40 ppt, with salinities between 30-40 ppt being optimum. While not significantly different, a salinity of 30 ppt promoted the fastest development and greatest growth in larvae compared to 35 and 40 ppt. A lower salinity of 25 ppt will impede larval growth more so than a higher salinity of 40 ppt. A salinity of 15 ppt will lead to dead larvae the following day. In this view, the larvae are strictly stenohaline.
I love Artemac!
User avatar
FuEl
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:23 pm
Location: Singapore

PreviousNext

Return to Lysmata - Cleaner & Peppermint Shrimps



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron