Breeding L.amboinensis

Breeding L.amboinensis

Postby Luis A M » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:59 pm

At last,after 143 days of larval development,my only survivor has just settled into a nice,very big post larva.
The full story can be seen at: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... ost9718115
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Postby KathyL » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:11 pm

WOW, quite an accomplishment, Luis! Congratulations!
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Postby spk » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:56 pm

Excellent news,

Now if only i could repeat your successes. I will sit and read through your log.
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Postby Peter Schmiedel » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:17 pm

Luis,

still no PC nerd :D
Photobucket is really easy. Free and reliable. I use it for all my pictures.

Let me know if you need help
Take care
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Postby Luis A M » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:51 pm

Thanks! :D I imagined a bunch of people don´t even peep over the fence to the other site :lol:
Will try photoshop.com
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Postby Luis A M » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:56 pm

L.JPG
Thanks,I could upload in Photobucket.Here is the pic of the new baby.Isn't it cute? :P
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Postby aomont » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:02 pm

I just have to say it again (now here !)
It´s a nice REAL shrimp now ! :) Congrats Luis.
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Postby KathyL » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:32 am

THAT is a gorgeous picture of a gorgeous shrimp. Congratulations on this fine accomplishment!
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Postby mpedersen » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:19 pm

Alrighty Luis, congrats, now, WHAT'S THE SECRET?!

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Postby Luis A M » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:30 pm

Thanks :D
Sorry,I think I posted an XL pic :? I have to scroll to see the whole shrimp...
No secrets,really.Only that it was evident that hydroids were killing my larvae.It could also be the Otohime food,or just luck! :D
Will see next time :roll:
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Postby Kmiec123 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:25 pm

Luis, I was watching a Discovery special and saw various shrimp at the bottom near thermal vent. I was just thinking that there must be a ton of pressure down there and maybe that has something to so with losses. I guess a sealed tank with an air pump could create some pressure and it could be a cool experiment. Just a thought/idea. Carl
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Postby fartet » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:01 pm

Hi, every one :D
The first, sorry for my english I know, is terrible :? :?

I'm trying to raise amboinensis, but I don't have luck, for me is very dificult.

You can to see same pictures and video of my try.

Click here to see the video of Breeding Amboniensis

Image


Image

Any aid is welcome :D
Last edited by fartet on Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
learning ;-) I'm spanish, sorry for my english
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Postby Luis A M » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:31 pm

Carl,a pressurized tank could be a cool and interesting project but for deep sea animals,not these guys! :?
Fartet,(es tu verdadero nombre?,en ingles suena un poco feo... :oops: )
Your english is OK,welcome! :D
Raising these shrimps is indeed difficult.Less than 10 people in the world ever could.But that´s why we are all together here, to make it easy! :D
Nice pics,zoea1 & 2.Buena suerte!
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Postby fartet » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:54 pm

Thaks, Luis.
Fartet is a small freshwater fish of where alive. You can to know here

I was editing de last post to add this link
Click here to see the video of Breeding Amboniensis

Thaks again.
learning ;-) I'm spanish, sorry for my english
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Postby Luis A M » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:22 pm

Viva el fartet,entonces!El Aphanius iberus es famoso!Lebias!?
Nice your avatar with the pic of a Lysmata 1st zoea!.Check the link in my first post to see the different stages.
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Postby Jens Kallmeyer » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:29 am

HI Luis

In your RC thread you write that Mark Wunsch (Bangor) wrote his PhD thesis about this subject. I am a but surprised, because there is a Mark Wunsch in Bremen, Germany, at the center for tropical marine ecology. He did his PhD thesis on "Exploration of structure and trophodynamics of coelobite (cavity-dwelling) communities in Red Sea coral reefs" in 2002. I could not find out whether the shrimp raising project was perhaps his Masters thesis or if there is another Mark Wunsch in Bangor. A search on web of science did not help, no indication for another Mark Wunsch except the one from Bremen.
I just checked the database of the library of the University of Bremen, they don't have any thesis about raising Lysmata. If you have any more informations about this thesis I may be able to track it down

Cheers

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Postby Luis A M » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:35 am

Jens,following are all regarding data;
Larval Development of Lysmata amboinensis (De Man1888)(Decapoda:Hyppolytidae)reared in the laboratory with a note on L.debelius (Bruce 1983)

Diplomarbeit submitted by Mark Wunsch from Uelzen

Research conducted at the University of Wales,Bangor School of Ocean Sciences Marine Science Laboratories,menai Bridge and at the II.Zoologisches Institut of the Georg-August-University Götingen 1996

Referee;Prof.Dr.Ulrich Ehlers
Coreferee:Dr.habil.Thomas Bartholomaeus
External supervisors:Dr.D.A.Jones
Dr.D.J.Fletcher
Oral examination 27 October 1994
Date of Submission 7 March 1996

Hope that helps.I also wondered about the further work of Mark W.but nobody heard from him again.Like vanished! :D
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Postby Jens Kallmeyer » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:34 am

Hi Luis

That helps! Now I can start digging a bit deeper. Göttingen is not out of the world for me, in fact I will be giving a seminar there in June.
Perhaps I can track down Mark, that may be the easiest thing to do.

I'll keep you posted

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frustrated with your post

Postby Amie » Sat May 19, 2007 8:50 pm

Well, now that I'm a little settled into this message board, I'm ready to really start asking questions about my real focus .. raising cleaner shrimp.

I've got to say that I was frustrated reading your post on reefcentral. 6 pages of reading, but almost no explanation of what you were doing. So many questions were asked that were left unanswered. You kept saying you were going to explain it or that you already explained it, but I couldn't find anything. Nothing about setup, maintenance, feeding schedule, aeration, filtration, salinity, temperature, lighting, lighting schedule, container size, chemicals, vitamins, RO or live water, live rock or sterile environment. You were asked several times where the hydroids were coming from and you never indicated if your water was getting contaminated from somewhere or if you had a clue of their origin.

You mentioned another site that you were going to be posting on. Was it this site? Or should I be watching another site?

I don't know about you, but I really plan on figuring out how to raise these guys and I'm really committed to it. I've got 4 breeding pair right now. My biggest frustration is actually finding people that have raised them or have had some success and then not having them talk. They say that they are going to talk, but then they say they are too busy right now or they will get back with me later. Are they scared that I might raise enough of them in my basement to sell them to the world and take over the market? Maybe there's some rush to write a paper and be the first to make money off of it. But truthfully, I just don't get it. What's the big secret all about? It's got to come down to money (or glory, I guess) - most things do.

Anyway, I hope people really are serious about sharing their successes and failures here on this board. It's the only way that this can work.
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Postby spk » Sat May 19, 2007 11:05 pm

Amie,

I too am looking to do the same thing and look forward to any suggestions that everyone may have.

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Re:

Postby Amie » Sat May 19, 2007 11:54 pm

spk wrote:Amie,

I too am looking to do the same thing and look forward to any suggestions that everyone may have.

Steve


Great. Well let's start posting what has been tried and what doesn't work. No reason to reinvent the wheel. Also, I have lots of different information from various people who have been successful. I just need people to brainstorm with to put everything all together. I'll start a thread for a couple different things.
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Re: frustrated with your post

Postby KathyL » Sun May 20, 2007 4:06 pm

Amie wrote:I don't know about you, but I really plan on figuring out how to raise these guys and I'm really committed to it. I've got 4 breeding pair right now. My biggest frustration is actually finding people that have raised them or have had some success and then not having them talk. They say that they are going to talk, but then they say they are too busy right now or they will get back with me later. Are they scared that I might raise enough of them in my basement to sell them to the world and take over the market? Maybe there's some rush to write a paper and be the first to make money off of it. But truthfully, I just don't get it. What's the big secret all about? It's got to come down to money (or glory, I guess) - most things do.

Anyway, I hope people really are serious about sharing their successes and failures here on this board. It's the only way that this can work.


Hi Amie,
Welcome to MOFIB! We are all glad you are here.

I would like to assure you that none of the reasons you are suggesting about lapses in the information content of the posts you've been reading are true. The breeding of cleaner shrimp is so difficult, and success has been so sparse, it would be hard to give an exact recipe, and also hard to know which parts are most imortant. In all the folks I know of who have attempted this, I don't think you could find a secretive or selfish bone. Some of them are not native english speakers, and although their written work is excellent, I do not doubt that it is a struggle, and the desire to be perfect can sometimes stifle completion of a piece of writing.

English is such a heavily nuanced language, it can also be difficult to know how one's writing is being read, without the advantages of facial expression and tone of voice. One needs to be generous about thinking positively about other peoples' motives and expressions. One needs to give the benefit of any doubt. In addition, one needs to be careful in writing, so that one's words cannot be misconstrued in a negative, and therefore, inhibiting, way. This is a very generous group, and I am sure no one holds any negative views of another. To do so would be tragic.

On the other hand, opinions are expressed freely, and should continue to do so. We all keep in mind that nothing said here should be taken personally, as it is never meant personally. We are here to further the art and science of fish and invert breeding, and that will best be done if we work together.

I am thrilled that you are taking on the cleaner shrimp! It is such a widely loved and kept animal, good for the health of most reef tanks. Everyone has seen the eggs and so far it has been nearly impossible to raise them. With such an easily spawnable animal, you have many chances to get it right, and I wish you the very best of luck. Figure out and document how to do this, and you will make quite a contribution!

Again, we are glad you are here and taking on this project. Best of luck!
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Postby Amie » Sun May 20, 2007 4:39 pm

Kathy,

Thank you for your response. I apologize if I offended anyone and it certainly wasn't my intent. My comments were coming from a long frustration of actually talking to people that HAVE raised cleaner shrimp successfully and have gotten them to settle and have refused to talk about it. It was not on a message board but it was through phone conversations and long email discussions.

I'm glad that you have not run into that attitude, but it is out there and I don't know why it exists. And it's frustrating. It was obvious to me, while reading Luis A M's 6 page post on ReefCentral, that he was experiencing the same thing. He mentioned that he wasn't allowed to give out information about his techniques because the people or person that was helping him said it was confidential. I'm guessing that he was talking to the same people that I had been talking to - but I could be wrong. That's what sparked my comment.

I was so thrilled to find this message board because it's exactly what is needed. I have a lot of information about raising these guys and it comes from a lot research and talking to people that have done it - but I need help in putting it all together. Some of the information is conflicting and I have gotten to the point that I have so much information that my mind just can't get around it all, so finding this board came just at the right time.

So, I promise to be good. :D
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Re: frustrated with your post

Postby Luis A M » Sun May 20, 2007 4:57 pm

Amie wrote:Well, now that I'm a little settled into this message board, I'm ready to really start asking questions about my real focus .. raising cleaner shrimp.

I've got to say that I was frustrated reading your post on reefcentral. 6 pages of reading, but almost no explanation of what you were doing. So many questions were asked that were left unanswered. You kept saying you were going to explain it or that you already explained it, but I couldn't find anything. Nothing about setup, maintenance, feeding schedule, aeration, filtration, salinity, temperature, lighting, lighting schedule, container size, chemicals, vitamins, RO or live water, live rock or sterile environment. You were asked several times where the hydroids were coming from and you never indicated if your water was getting contaminated from somewhere or if you had a clue of their origin.

You mentioned another site that you were going to be posting on. Was it this site? Or should I be watching another site?

I don't know about you, but I really plan on figuring out how to raise these guys and I'm really committed to it. I've got 4 breeding pair right now. My biggest frustration is actually finding people that have raised them or have had some success and then not having them talk. They say that they are going to talk, but then they say they are too busy right now or they will get back with me later. Are they scared that I might raise enough of them in my basement to sell them to the world and take over the market? Maybe there's some rush to write a paper and be the first to make money off of it. But truthfully, I just don't get it. What's the big secret all about? It's got to come down to money (or glory, I guess) - most things do.

Anyway, I hope people really are serious about sharing their successes and failures here on this board. It's the only way that this can work.



OMG Amie,just a little settled and already SOOOO frustrated :shock:
Too bad that you have to read my whole thread only to find that no secrets were unveiled nor recipes for success were given! :(
(Amie is referring to my thread in another board linked above)

This is natural because that was not a ¨how to¨post,but an attempt to find,describe and document all developing stages of L.amboinensis.
While some stages,especially the late ones require further observations,much of the purpose was fulfilled and it was so aknowledged by several specialized researchers.
If you know about shrimp larval biology you will realize the importance of the larval stages and their correct ID.I said they are like railroad stations,if you know them you know how your journey is developing.Not knowing them,you are in the darkness,wondering why your larva doesn´t settle and asking about the secret settling cue needed.
So that was not a thread, or blog,on larviculture.Yet some issues on culture were discussed when relevant,like diet and fighting hydroids.And I did not fail to answer questions.That makes me think that you didn´t really read the thread but just overlooked it looking for the ¨secret recipe¨.
L.amboinensis is very difficult to rear,only perhaps because of it´s very long larval life.Very few people could raise them and then,like in my case,only one post larva.Perhaps Andy R.was the only researcher that could raise a group of them some time ago,though I am not aware that this was posted or published or pictured anywhere.
So ¨fame,glory and money¨are still waiting for you if you crack this shrimp :lol:
Have you already succeeded with peppermints which is the first level in this raising game? (debelius being the 2nd).

And yes,I plan to write a thread about crustacean larviculture here in the ¨larviculture¨forum.You must be patient because I first must finish my ¨calanoid¨series and them write something shorter about harps.
But curb your expectations and avoid further frustrations. :) No big secrets will be disclosed there.But I will give an overview of the known larval rearing methods and describe my own in detail.And expect from me to tell EVERYTHING I find or methods I design.But don´t expect that I expose ANY information given to me as confidential.That won´t happen.
Luis
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Postby Peter Schmiedel » Mon May 21, 2007 3:24 am

Luis,

I always thought debelius and ambonensis are the same difficult? What is the main difference in favor of debelius? I assume short larve stages?
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