Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:41 am

Hey Dave thanks a lot for the information. I ground some flake between my fingers tonight and add that to the tank. It is on the water surface and as it saturates it goes down to bottom. I did see one shrimp with it in its hands but it let go of it after about 10 seconds. This is new to them so maybe it takes a bit to realize it is food. Any king of flake food or is their one that you have heard works? I have been adding a bit of the phyoto (nano and selcon) to the water each day as well so that like you suggested has likely been a savior.

Read the book "How to raise and train your Peppermint Shrimp." and really enjoyed it. Gave some great info and learned alot. The only think lacking I thought was pictures and more detailed information on the environment. The empty tank with air-stone and heater and no filtration is not practical for me. I like less maintenance although I don't mind it. I think that a sump where I can add heaters, lots of air, protein skimmer and rock would likely make a significant difference. I need to learn how to make a overflow using a screen or some sort that would allow me to conect it to a sump without risk of the shrimp being sucked against it. Is there a place that I can buy mesh to custom make something. Also what micron if someone knows would I need to keep baby brine from escaping. I was really hoping to see others systems with other tanks connected but havent seen much. If anyone has links to their setups or others that they felt were well done please share.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby EasterEggs » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:41 pm

Check out "upwellers". They are a sump system designed for decapods. I can't believe you're at 21 days...I am soooo jealous! Mine died at 10 dph I think it, just a sudden massive die-off. I just collected a new batch today...try, try again!
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:06 am

Thanks for the info on upwellers. They look like a system that could work well for shrimp. Sorry about the loss, I am sure you will get it this time. I have been feeding flake foods. They seem to be taking to it now but a lot goes to waste. Probably 95% or more of what goes in I have to suck off the bottom. I think it would be a great food for systems that could keep it suspended.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby dave w » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:51 pm

Kirkendoll's book is probably a decade old or more, so the digital cameras so commonplace today may not have been available to her. I agree with you about the illustrations. Also when her book was written, kreisels probably hadn't been invented yet. I agree with you that bare tanks need a lot of hand work. Consider floating a horizontal or vertical kreisel directly in the broodstock tank to help with water quality. Also try to find or make a kreisel that is cylindri-conical. Good kreisels have an upwelling hole in the middle to keep things in suspension. When you take the pump away from the upweller the center hole can then do double duty by allowing detritus to drop out of the tank into the broodstock tank that can handle the dirty bioload. Let me know if my narrative on this isn't clear.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:13 am

Thanks a lot for the good info Dave. Just what I was looking for. The term you gave for their environment "kreisels" allowed me to google and find some good information. Saturday morning they are 4 weeks old. They seem really delicate still. Maybe even more so then when they were small. It is funny to see them hang on to flake food and eat it. I have feed some cyclopezze as well but that requires a bottom vacuum a couple hours post feeding. Where do you recommend me getting the mesh and what size for making the kresiel. I would like to get something small enough to keep the BBS and the peppermint shrimp in post hatch and up to when the settle.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby dave w » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm

I'm not sure the kreisel size is so important. Any larval tank needs to be small enough to concentrate the food but large enough to be stable. So while most people use a stand alone tank and start with a small water level, I prefer to put the larval tank in the broodstock tank. Float it shallow if you need to concentrate food for a few larvae, float it deep if you need to concentrate food for a lot of larvae. So the key is the relative # of food organisms per larvae per ml, not the total # of food organisms.

BBS can be sorted by screen size, but because BBS grow so fast relative to your larvae, the BBS need to be removed from the larval tank, or they compete with the larvae for food. A good idea is to keep lots of greenwater phyto in the tank in any case to help the larvae see their prey as well as to keep their prey nutritious.

I think the best kreisels are shallow round black plastic buckets with screened bottoms. The mesh size has to be small enough to keep in larvae and should be changed out for larger sizes as the larvae grow, because you want any smaller waste to pass through the screen. But most people don't agree with the approach of combining broodstock and larvae water, so there are many other ways also.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby EasterEggs » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:57 pm

EasterEggs wrote:I believe they have to be NHBBS, not BBS as I don't think the Peppermint shrimp larvae can get through the BBS shell.


I have found this to be incorrect. Lysmata can indeed eat older brine shrimp.

http://www.uanl.mx/utilerias/nutricion_ ... os/A18.pdf
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Luis A M » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:54 pm

Right.And uneaten bbs must be removed not because they compete with zoea,but because they die and create pollution :wink:
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby EasterEggs » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:29 pm

Interesting Luis. Why would the BS be dying?
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Luis A M » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:56 pm

EasterEggs wrote:Interesting Luis. Why would the BS be dying?

Starved.Unless algae are provided.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby EasterEggs » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:51 pm

Oh I see. I understand that algae helps the larvae see their food source because it gives a background color, plus it prevents them from seeking to capture prey that is too far away.

I have some decapped BS eggs boiling away right now, I'm going to add some to my shrimp larvae fish bowl tomorrow...maybe try some RotiGreen Omega too. My latest boggessi are 8 dph today. I haven't been making it past 9/10 dph. Doesn't seem to matter if I use live BS or frozen Cyclopeeze. Strange. I read Andy Rhyne et Al's report on larval shrimp nutrition and it points to providing more food sources (they used Artemac pellets and live BS).

http://www.uanl.mx/utilerias/nutricion_ ... os/A18.pdf
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Luis A M » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:40 pm

This is right for fish larvae,but seemingly,shrimp larvae are more tactile and olfactory oriented.They dont even need direct lighting.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:37 am

I think two of 2 of the Shrimp settled in the last 24 hours. (They are 32DPH) They are holding on too the airline tubing. I took a pair of tweezers with a piece of flake to feed one and it crawled around to the back side, then back again. Once it realized it was flake it grabbed it and pushed off into the water column to eat it. About 15 minutes later it was back on the tube in the same spot. Does this mean it is settled? Another observation is that the two that may have settled seem really clear no color but seem healthy other then that. Do I need to wait two add live rock to the tank until they all settle so the free floating ones don't get injured? I have really been anxious to get the rock in their so I don't have to change the water every day like I have been. That is getting really old.

Another question? Where can I purchase Mesh to DIY a better setup for the larva tank and what micron to keep the Live BBS in is required.

Sincerely PITA
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby EasterEggs » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:39 am

Yeah, it settled. Congrats! I'm not sure what the next step is...I think people remove settled ones and put them into a growout tank, but I'm not sure.

I'm so jealous...I was down to two yesterday at just 10 dph. I don't get it, you make it look easy on your first try! Would you mind to please post a photo of the tank you are keeping them in and maybe some more detailed information on your daily procedures? If you're willing to share, I would love to hear how you are doing this! It seems some people find it easy, and other struggle. There seems to be a wide range of successful protocol though which is weird.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:16 am

Sure thing EasterEggs, I will get photos of everything this weekend and post up everything I do.
There are still a few that haven't settled yet. I added a piece of live rock to the tank so hopefully that will help reduce water changes
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:14 am

I didn't get a chance to take any pictures this weekend but I will do that. You will be unimpressed though.

- They are in a 10g tank with an airstone and heater. (Tank runs 75F - 76F) In a cold basement.
- Water Changes = Remove 75% of water and replace 25% or add 50% each day. For example day 1 start with 50% full tank (5g). Day 2 add 5g. Day 3 Remove 75% of water and add 25% so it is 1/2 full again. Repeat endlessly.
- Vacum the bottom with a rigid airline every day.
- Feed baby brine every other day. Add about 2ML of Phyto each day to keep the brine alive
- Feed flake food every day after they were 4 weeks I think
Thats it.

Now that they have settled I have a rock hanging in the tank to help with bio-load. It is suspended via piece of PVC and fishing line so not touching any tank walls. Considering doing the same in my second larva tank. Hope this would help reduce water changes and keep parameters steady.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Suzy » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:27 am

I am impressed!
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby EasterEggs » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:40 pm

Thanks for posting! Sorry I missed it when you posted it a few days ago. I am impressed that you were able to do this with just a typical 10 gallon tank. Are you using live phyto or paste? Do you use conditioned tap water or RO?
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:26 am

It is live phyto, a mix of N & T. Water is RO/DI with Reef Crystals salt at 1.023 Salinity. I received adult live brine today from livebrineshrimp.com. The peppermints love it and was surprised at their aggression toward them. They all ate good today. Hope I can keep the adult brine alive. Brought my whole family in to see them eat. It was pretty cool. The one thing I forgot to add is that on occasion there are days that I just don't feel like doing any water change or siphoning the bottom. On those days I add about 5 drops of Prime.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:44 pm

Here is a picture of one of the settled shrimp (39DPH)

Image

Here is another batch of larva that are 18 Days Post Hatch

Image

18DPH shrimp are in this tank

Image

39DPH shrimp are in this tank

Image

Full view

Image
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby EasterEggs » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:52 am

Thanks for posting pics and details! So much simpler than what I am doing...argh!
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Suzy » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:17 am

Very, very cool!

I like the last pic. It shows how much room you have to expand into your basement! You could make a huge public aquarium in there! (I wouldn't recommend too big of a shark tank, although they like it cool! ).

I hope you got artemia cysts when you ordered from BSD? You can grow your own live brine shrimp in about 2 weeks if you did.

What are the gallons of green on the lower shelve?
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Lazylivin » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:26 pm

It is Phyto growing at the bottom. N,T & I types. I have a few other projects going on that use it as well as brine shrimp feed. Yes I did get 1 pound of their artemia cysts. Much cheaper then the little 5g tubes I have been buying for 8 bucks at LFS.
The top plastic jug is for water changes. I pull the water out then let replacement water flow back in via air tubing. It takes about 15 minutes to empty the jug, figured the slower water change would help them acclimate to any PH changes.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby Suzy » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:55 pm

Are you growing the phyto there? I never thought of using gallon jugs.

Every time I have tried to grow 2 different species they always contaminate each other.
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Re: Environment for Rearing Peppermint Shrimp

Postby jeff@zina.com » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:07 pm

Lazylivin wrote:I received adult live brine today from livebrineshrimp.com. The peppermints love it and was surprised at their aggression toward them.

The nice thing about peppermint shrimp (and others) is that they chew their food. Unlike clown fish larvae that have to ingest the whole piece, peppermints can take a bite off a larger piece of food. Lets you start with larger food.

I've never raised them, intentionally. A few show up in the sump once in a while, but I never tried collecting larva or purposely raising them. Maybe it's time to try.

Thanks for the info and detailed setup.

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