JAW FISH BABIES

JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:02 pm

Hi ,

I just did registrate me on this forum , but read some good stuff here before , helping me raising the yelow head jaw :D
I'm not very good in english , so feel free to ask or correct me if it goes to bad :oops:
The first time i did see my jaw fish male , was on hatching day :shock: (and that was not because I never looked in the tank :roll: )
I really don't know how he managed hiding this stuff for me ...then i was surprised because he didn't closed his hole this evening :shock:
...now I know why :oops:
...but then I looked on this forum , and became a whole lot wiser :mrgreen:
well , it normally takes 1 week(8 days) from breeding to hatch , but if the male is being disturbed at hatching time , the hatch can be one or even two days later (similar as with amphiprion) I was sitting a whole night waiting for the fry (i had produced a real bunch of tonsa naupli for the larvae some days before , as growing with the fry , there will be more bio-mass from the tonsa egg since O.aurifrons larvae do not need to be fed by the smallest/youngest naupli) which didn't came because i was stressing the male :oops:
breeding happened always(at least with my pair) in the hole , I never could see them acting in the water.I could tell easily (after some experience) by wtaching the females body when the eggs moved into the mouth of the male , she goes in the evening in her hole , looking really fat , both the female*s and the male's hole were closed in the evening , and the next morning the female was thin , and the male is opening his hole a bit later ,( after the first attempts when he was more shy ),soon showing his mouth full ...the male can bee seen a little bit more often for each day he has the eggs , and the last daysbefore hatch he seemed to be really proud and is showing them more and more often .
The hatch happened ca. 1 hour after the light switches off , but if the fish is disturbed before the hatch started , nothing will happen in this night...
I used naupli and copepodits of A.tonsa , and some small sized rots (which giving me a really hard time according to water quality)
In my first attempt I took only tonsa naupli , but had to find out I didn't had enough and at the same time I had crashed my back up rotifer-culture with an overdose selco :oops: but one larvae did it to day 17.
The 2.attempt I didn't want to make too large water changes , what killed most of the larvae but 4 made it(when i did large water changes in the end) , but it took almost 4 weeks :oops:
The last attempt got me about 20 more fish , they did start meta at day 13 , day 15 ALL fry was looking adult (at least by the colour), NO one left in the water column .
In my experience water changes are important , and do not harm the larvae if using "old" water from a well working tank or natural saltwater with equal salinity and ph.
Here you can watch to videos from the youngest fry :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_f71MSzxwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VwFJ43C ... re=related

and some pictures of larvae in meta and the oldest fry from the second attempt (they are growing real fast):
brunni5.JPG

O.a..JPG

b-larve 2.JPG


So , thanks a lot for plenty useful information i could find on your forum !I hope I could add some more .

Thomas Engels
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Spracklcat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:38 pm

Welcome, and thank you so much for posting those videos!!! They are amazing--congratulations. i look forward to hearing more about your babies.

Christine
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby bbranham3 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:54 pm

Those are really great videos and pictures!! I hope to see more from you. It looks like you are having a lot of success. I bet you are having a lot of fun watching those little guys move around the crushed coral and popping out of it to catch food. :D

Cathi
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Luis A M » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:04 am

Tengels,we are very happy to have you here!.and your breeding success with the jawfish is an uncommon achievement! 8) Those babies are cute! :P
And your english is OK :wink:
You never tried to raise them with rotifers and artemia?
How is the larval tank?.
Few people is feeding copepod naups.Could you describe how you culture yours?
Luis
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:33 am

Thank you for the flowers :)
I was so lucky to be sponsered with a great number of tonsa eggs from a local marine research company working on mass-production of the specie for aqua-culture ,but they are thinking of the hobby-marked as well ...i did culture A.tonsa for some time before (using your discription , Luis ), but i have to admit the number of individs getting rather lower than higher after some weeks :oops: ...it's a lot of work , and now I know how many eggs/naups are needed for success...
So I startet hatching tonsa eggs some days before expected hatch of the jaw-firsh fry (it's almost the same as playing poker if you have to pay for the tonsa eggs :mrgreen: )and hatch another batch after collecting larvae.(so the larvae could be fed with larger naups when getting bigger)
Naups was fed with rhodomonas (mainly)
To get enough food items in the larvae tank , I added some rots too , but they have really bad influence on water quality when theyr grow get out of control...And the jaw fish larvae is not so hardy as amphiprion ...I had great losses of larvae day 1and 2 in all three attemps ,at the last attempt I thougt i would loose everyone after day 4 or 5 but then it suddenly stopped and the rest was doing really well :D
I fed artemia from day 10 , but in attempt 1 and 2 there was big differences in larvae size (nearly all the way) from day 14 ONLY artemia was used.
I'm sure they fed on rots , because in attempt 2 i had losses of about 20 larvae each day , and when rots dissapeared , losses got higher ...
But even if the mouth of larvae is pretty big , I don't believe standard rots(Br.plicatilis) are good enough day 1,2 and 3.
Attempt 1 I started with 200 larvae , attempt 2 and three I had about 500 , but just the day after hatch I had to collect about 100 dead ones in all three attempts.I used about 2 million tonsa eggs each in attempt 2 and three , in attempt one i hatched naups every day,about 1,5 million I think.
Larvae tank was used in size 10 and 15 g , air flow and heater in seperate chamber , with areated water flow in the main part.
Light was a single 15 w economy-bulb , both phyto (teraselmis) , zooplancton and larvae concentrated under the light :) sides of tank was black , not because the larvae is very shy (they do have far better nervs than their parents and show no sign of panic if not disturbed at night) , but light from the outside might spread both food and larvae in the tank or might concentrate them in unwanted places.

Thomas

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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby LargeAngels » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:09 am

Awesome!! Congratulations.
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Saltysteele » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:26 am

that's awesome, man! keep up the great work, and be sure to keep us posted on your progress, as well as any tips you might have. that is just awesome! :)
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby tcmfish » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:41 pm

Nice job. How did you collect the larvae?
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Luis A M » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:59 pm

So you´ve been watching MOFIB for some time and lately you decided to join...It´s flattering to know that what we post here is useful for people all around the world,possibly many more than our 1,400 members!.
Yes,obtaining millions of A.tonsa eggs is a blessing.Algagen in USA was also selling them,but they were too expensive.
At one time,I thought that any calanoid eggs from egg scatterer species could be cold stored.That wasn´t true,unfortunately,and seemingly it could be done only with A.tonsa,that I know?.
As calanoids need to be fed on live algae (so far) mass producing algae is a precondition to mass produce calanoids :(
So you raise your larvae in partitioned regular tanks...Haven´t you tried BRTs?.
Jawfish and Gramma were raised in old times (on rots),after clowns and Neon Gobies,so they probably are not difficult to raise,as larvae go.
And yet,both remain very much not being bred,so your success with them is very inspiring!.Keep on the good work and posting it here! :D
Luis
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:18 pm

tcmfish wrote:Nice job. How did you collect the larvae?

larvae is easy to collect , it's basicly the same thing as with amphiprion , they are strongly attracted to light as most other marin larvae , and can be collected with a cup.They should be treated with more care than amphiprion , they seem to be less hardy than them at least in the beginning.
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:35 pm

@Luis
yes , it's mostly the producing of the food for the copepods what's the biggest work ...but I'm sure the price for tonsa eggs will be lower in future.The eggs will be used in commercial aquaculture for human food production , and most "common" people are not willing to pay the same price as hobby -breeders for getting fish grown to adult size :wink:
Unfortunately , it seems to be a fact that not so many hobbyists are interested in breeding of marin organism (yet , but we are getting more) in each country , and I think it's a very good thing to have an international forum in english (even if some people perhaps are a bit shy to use this language as well ?) for people all over the world to share information.Especially the overwiew sites here are very helpful I think , you people did a great work with it.
No I did not use any BRT yet , but I think if I would buy some more tanks for larvae , it would be those.Anyway , jaw fish larvae was new stuff for me and then it's good to look at the fry form the sides as well (espacially those little sand-diggers)...it would'nt have been possible to do any videos with BRT either :wink:
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby lance » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:04 am

Congrat's on your babies
http://www.youtube.com/user/CoralMan24

http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/lancelesko/

Always quarantine new arrival's before adding to breeding tank's or display
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:44 pm

Well , babies be youngsters , and those are growing really fast ... this pic is already more than a month old , and now they have moved from the larvcae tank to a larger outgrowing tank together with some kardinalfish - youngsters and a bunch of percs - which actually works very well.
I took some pics of this,too , but there are too much pixel to compress - after that the pics are looking really bad :evil:

O.a.JPG

019.JPG


Thomas
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby lance » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:57 pm

babies are so cute great to see people being successful with there fish's offspring nice job.

lance
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http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/lancelesko/

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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby tcmfish » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:05 am

How do you collect the larvae to eggs? Nice work!
Tim.
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:07 pm

Larvae can easily be collected / scooped at water surface ( they are attracted to light) using a cup ,after released by the male ( about one hour after the light has switched off)
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:40 pm

Today when i was going to feed the youngsters i wondered if there was something wrong with my eyes :shock:
...the biggest jaw head teeny has his mouth full with eggs !
6 month old/young , 5 month past meta ...father for the first time ! in a tank loaded with a.percula and Pt.kauderni , all youngsters of good size !
...at least , i guess i put enough food in there :mrgreen:

Thomas
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Midnight Angel » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:18 pm

Way to go !!!! This is great news ! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby ReeFeRX » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:16 pm

How cool is that? Congratulations and keep up the good work!
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby lance » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:22 am

any update's?

lance
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http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/lancelesko/

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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby FuEl » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:56 am

I've always wondered on the difficulties after grow-out. How do you catch all of them if they are all in burrows?
I love Artemac!
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:35 pm

The first time i had to move them i placed a small plasticbox with gravel in the tank.(you can seen it in the background on the second last picture above)But there was only moving in two fish ...which was moved in their burrows with the whole box 8)
The first time i tried to catch them out of the outgrowing tank i got a pair right away in the fish net :shock:
...they expected food , not a catching - attempt :mrgreen:
.. next time i might be less lucky.I think maybe i have to move the fish together with the gravel :? Using rather a shovel then a net :roll:
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby Tengels » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:42 pm

lance wrote:any update's?


I haven't seen the eggs no more (for the moment) , but anyway , i have no plans to raise more batches at this time...i wonder if i can sell the batch i have in the first place.There's just a small marked for ornamental saltwaterfish in Norway , and jaw fish are hardly known here...I also guess the new pair is to small yet to produce strong and healthy fry , the parents are just ca. 2,5 inches " long " so far.
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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby lance » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:05 am

yeah that is a tough one but hopefully you can figure out how to sell the first batch and start on a 2nd or a new project.

lance
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http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww49/lancelesko/

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Re: JAW FISH BABIES

Postby bobz » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:05 pm

Thomas,

The picture of the jawfish with the juv kardinals and clowns is fantastic! Great job! I love it!
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"To do is to be" - Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Sinatra
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