Raising Maroon larvae .. questions

Raising Maroon larvae .. questions

Postby SteveH » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:09 pm

I've been reading the board for months, but never posted. I have raised percs and osc. clown's for a few years now. This week is the first time that I have had maroon larvae to raise. I was just wondering if anyone knew the differences that I was going to be facing with these fry. The first thing I noticed was how much smaller the larvae are. Today is day 3 and they don't seem to be attacking the food like I'm used to seeing by now.

Should I be treating them differently?
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Postby David M » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:28 pm

Yes they are smaller and don't grow as fast. Keep rots availavble for at least 12 days IMO. If you use artemia/ bbs wait until around day 6-8 to start. After met they are more difficult because they fight, especially wsm. Gsm are not as bad but they still tear each other up. It's more important with these to keep the density high than it is with o's. I have had some success mixing species in GO, iow mixing tomato's, clarks and/or ocellaris in with the maroons seems to cut down on the aggresion. My best guess? They get confused :roll:

Also if gsm and you want top $ for them you may be looking at up to a year in grow out to get color. :(
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Postby SteveH » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:39 am

It didn't occur to me that I would have problems with aggression so early. I've never had problems with my percs or osc. babies. I should be getting a new batch of percs. on Thursday - are you saying that I can put the larvae together? Can I put them together as soon as I catch the perc. fry? They will probably be the same size by them, the maroons will be 6 days old.

The parents of the maroon's are mixed .. the female is white-striped and the male is yellow-striped. There is no telling what type they will turn out to be. There's no way I'm keeping them for a year, I'll just get rid of them as soon as they are big enough .. I need the space.
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Postby David M » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:16 am

By all means you can mix the larvae. It will take at least 5 months to get them to a saleable size but longer is better. I'd think you'd be used to that if you are raising percula :wink:
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Re:

Postby SteveH » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:48 pm

David M wrote:By all means you can mix the larvae. It will take at least 5 months to get them to a saleable size but longer is better. I'd think you'd be used to that if you are raising percula :wink:


5-6 months, no big deal. 1 year, a little long to wait for me. I should be getting black osci's at the end of the week and percs on Wednesday. I've never thought of raising them together, but it would sure cut down on the space they are taking up.

Today, day 4, the Maroon's look like the size of newly hatched percs.
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Postby chaz » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:55 pm

Hi SteveH,
As you have seen maroons are a lot smaller than commons when they hatch. As David M says, leave it till day 7 or 8 to start with the FHBS and do not put as many in as you would with commons, maroons tend to over eat and rupture there stomachs when initially feeding on FHBS.

Try and add vitamin C somehow into the water, I use water based vitamins, but am not sure how effective they are. Maroons and Clarki need 300 times the amount of vitamin C to aviod the cranial deformaties so commonly seen with TB maroones and Clarki's.

When they have been off BS for a few days, say day 25, you can move them into a tank with commons, the maroons are such poor swimmers it takes them all there time to compete for food !!!

Hope this helps a bit,

Chaz.
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Postby BreedingNemo » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:15 am

SteveH,

Our oldest GSM are now about 9 months old and only a few have reached salable size...
To see the yellow appearing it even takes longer (count minimum 12 to 18 months).
They are indeed way smaller than other species and a lot die in the first days following hatching... :-(
And considering the bad reputation maroons have, it's not easy to sell them.
Definitely not a money maker.

Rem: to reduce aggressiveness, we keep about 500 specimens in a 60x30x30 tank. Mixing species is also a good way.

Edit: Tank is 60x40x40!
Last edited by BreedingNemo on Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SteveH » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:46 am

I had no idea these were going to be such a problem. The parent's are so incredibly beautiful, it would be hard to give them up. Can they be paired up fairly young like percs? or does it take a long time before you can tell if they will pair or not? Maybe I should be playing soft music for them so they develop a better personality. :D

I guess I should focus on my black osc.'s
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Postby David M » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:52 am

Pairing Premnas is nothing like pairing Amphiprion clownfish, forget everything you know :? Starting with 2 juveniles does work on occasion but is not the rule, it's just as likely they will kill each other. I have had success with adult fish of known sex ( ie broodstock that lost partners) but that's not the usual way either. I think the most common method is you get the biggest baddest fish you can find and offer it a tiny bite sized mate. Sometimes it is shocking to see how quickly the big girl accepts and protects the liitle guy. No more than 2-5 seconds on occasion. Other times it's a total bust and you have to remove the smaller fish. Often I do this in a 5 gallon bucket rather than the "home" tank of either fish. Seems to be some advantage to having the larger fish a tad stressed. Basically IME so far you know in minutes if it's going to work and there is no point in continuing to try ( like with clarkii's) if the female rejects the offer on the first shot.
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Postby SteveH » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:33 am

I have a question about agression in the babies. I still only have 5 - 2 month old's in a 10 gallon tank. They are about 1.5 cm right now (5/8"). They seems to be getting along fine, ie. no ripped fins or bite marks yet. Is it still too early to expect fighting? Or should I count myself lucky? At the rate they are growing, they should be saleable at 4 months.

Any additional information always appreciated. Thanks.
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Postby Peter Schmiedel » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:05 am

Steve,

ours are model citizens and don't fight at all. I wish I could say the same about the percula. The none fighting next to the perfect quality & coloration (including black fins) is my best sales argument to the dealers.
Take care
Peter
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Postby David M » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:24 pm

Well my maroons start bickering soon after met, it's actually funny to see. I can't explain why others don't have the problem. IME white stripes are even worse than gsm, flat out killing each other.

I will be suprised if you can sell those fish at 4 months, if so post back here and tell us what you fed them :shock: Mine take more like 9-10 months to reach a decent size and color.
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Postby Peter Schmiedel » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:22 am

Yeah the selling time is the real problem with that fish, and if I see what I get for these fish and calculate the food and maintenance time I pay on top. Luckily I do this for fun ;)

It is really strange that David and my fish behave so different. We should try to come to a point where we can narrow the reasons down.

1. I have several hundred in a grow out 60x40x40 CM. I only noticed problems if I put to many different batches together (more than 2 Month age difference)

2. Out of this tank I sort the ones for market and the ones which go Rhinopias.

3. The ones for the Rhinopias are also in a 60x40x40 and there are about 70. No aggression at all

4. The ones for market are in a 50x30x30 CM. Where I had about 200 fish in. Even after I sold the first 80 last week, the smaller numbers did not make any change - still no aggression at all, Size here is about 4-6 cm. Some have a hint of yellow but most show only white stripes.

5. Would one think food could make a difference? I mean ingredients not amount?
Take care
Peter
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Postby SteveH » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:31 pm

Peter Schmiedel wrote:

2. Out of this tank I sort the ones for market and the ones which go Rhinopias.



I guess that's one way to get rid of them that I hadn't thought about.

Peter Schmiedel wrote: Size here is about 4-6 cm. Some have a hint of yellow but most show only white stripes.


That seems huge. How long did it take for them to get that big? I think my breeding male is around 5cm. I'll have to try to get him to slow down long enough so I can measure him.
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