Green Chromis spawn in Display

Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:26 pm

We have 9 green Chromis (Chromis viridis, or is it C. caerulea?), 2 larger adults we've had for 3+ years, and 7 younger ones bought this summer. One of the larger adults has become VERY aggressive in the last day toward everbody who comes near one overflow. I spotted tiny, white dots all over the side of that overflow, scraped a few off, looked under the microsope, and yes, they are eggs! I see tiny heartbeats and some things starting to look like eyes.

I know success rates with these guys are very small. My question now is: Is there any chance of successful hatch if I scrape these eggs off the side of the overflow and the glass at the back of the tank, and move them to another tank for hatching, or will they all be destroyed in the process? If I can expect some success in hatching, will they need aeration, or just time and plenty of rotifers the morning after hatch? Any suggestions welcome.

I don't really expect success, but would like to use this opportunity to learn everything I can from it.

TIA,
Jim

PS: Before I joined this board, none of my fish except my seahorses spawned. Now, I have Pyjama Cardinals and Green Chromis both spawning at the same time! Was this going on all along, but I never noticed until my awareness was raised, or is there just something in the air (water)? I have been feeding my tanks live phyto and Tigriopus recently, which they never got before. Just wondering....
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:54 pm

Another question: In Witt, Page 174, he says, "Eggs are removed to a rearing tank the day hatching is expected and supplied with aeration directly over the egg mass." I'm confused by "directly over", does that mean (1) the bubbles are above the eggs, but not touching the eggs, and just causing circulation near the eggs, or does this mean that (2) the eggs are above the bubbles, and the bubbles are passing directly over/across the eggs?
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby LethargicCoder » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:54 pm

JimWelsh wrote:We have 9 green Chromis (Chromis viridis, or is it C. caerulea?), 2 larger adults we've had for 3+ years, and 7 younger ones bought this summer. One of the larger adults has become VERY aggressive in the last day toward everbody who comes near one overflow. I spotted tiny, white dots all over the side of that overflow, scraped a few off, looked under the microsope, and yes, they are eggs! I see tiny heartbeats and some things starting to look like eyes.

I know success rates with these guys are very small. My question now is: Is there any chance of successful hatch if I scrape these eggs off the side of the overflow and the glass at the back of the tank, and move them to another tank for hatching, or will they all be destroyed in the process? If I can expect some success in hatching, will they need aeration, or just time and plenty of rotifers the morning after hatch? Any suggestions welcome.

I don't really expect success, but would like to use this opportunity to learn everything I can from it.

TIA,
Jim

PS: Before I joined this board, none of my fish except my seahorses spawned. Now, I have Pyjama Cardinals and Green Chromis both spawning at the same time! Was this going on all along, but I never noticed until my awareness was raised, or is there just something in the air (water)? I have been feeding my tanks live phyto and Tigriopus recently, which they never got before. Just wondering....


Congrats on the spawning activity.

As for the gathering and hatching of the chromis eggs, check out the thread New Egg Harvesting and Incubation Scheme for Aquarium Spawns. Definitely possible.

With the aeration, you want "(2) the eggs are above the bubbles, and the bubbles are passing directly over/across the eggs"

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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:03 am

Thanks, Eric for the clarification on the aeration, and also the great link to the thread on the "straw trick"!
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby Luis A M » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:13 am

As Eric says,you can perfectly incubate and hatch part of the nest with this method. 8)
Pics of the eggs and larvae would be great. :wink:
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:31 pm

Yesterday, just to be sure they were really eggs I scraped a few off the tank wall to look at them under the microscope. Once I saw that they were eggs, I put them in a 10Gal tank I'm growing rotifers in. Put them just under the airline bubbles. This morning, I have several chromis larvae that have hatched! I gotta run off to work right now, but they're in green water with about 20-30 rotifers / ml. We'll see if they survive until I get home! I'll try collecting more eggs this evening, and post updates.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby Luis A M » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:42 pm

Jim,did you notice if they hatched without pigmented eyes?
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:10 pm

No, Luis, I did not notice, but will try to check one (assuming they're still alive) when I get home. Is hatching without pigmented eyes bad? Does that indicate premature hatch?
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby Luis A M » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:32 pm

No,it means that they are hatched in a less developed stage.So you can´t see eye reflections in the eggs ready to hatch.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:40 pm

Most of them are alive this evening. They are not as active as earlier this morning. I thought many of them were dead and just floating in the circulation from the airline, but when I went to pipette them, they swam away! I did catch one, and examined it under the microscope. It still has a yolk sack, but no clear eyes I can see or mouth parts. Hard to tell, the little feller wouldn't hold still for very long. I put it back.

I have to go to a cello lesson right now (TOO many hobbies!), but will try to get some pics and post them this evening. Also gonna try to get some more eggs with the straw trick tonight.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby Luis A M » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:35 am

This confirms that Chromis hatch in a prolarval stage,like Dascyllus.Both belong to the same subfamily,chrominae.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:20 am

Pictures are NOT working out tonight. Basically, these guys are too big for my rig. I can't get the whole creature in the frame with the equipment I have. I can say that at roughly 18 hours post hatch, they look an awful lot like Spawner's picture at the same age in this thread: http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=170&t=5103.

About the only other thing I can tell you is that they are about 2mm long.

The ones that hatched last night are alive and well in my rotifer tank, and mostly just float around, until I try to catch them with the pipette. Then, they are very elusive.

I did manage to collect some more eggs with a straw this evening. I'm not prepared with a proper tumbler (ordered the glass funnel from VWR today -- it helps that I work at an analytical laboratory! :wink: ) I put the freshly collected eggs in the same rotifer tank used yesterday. It looks like the simple areation from the airline in the rotifer tank was sufficient to hatch at least some of the larvae yesterday, I hope for the same success with these new eggs.

It sounds like there is very little information about chromis larvae available. Please remember that I don't have any unrealistic expectations about being able to actually succeed in raising any of these guys, but want to learn. I also want to be of whatever help to the community I can. If there are any specific questions I can help answer, or information I can help gather, please speak up. The lab I work at does have some impressive microscopes and cameras in the microbiology department, and some PhD microbiologists that are very cooperative with my little experiments. Main problem is that they are trained in studying bacteria and yeasts, not "multicellular organisms", as they call the things I'm interested in! At any rate, let me know what YOU all want to learn from my experience, if anything, and I'll accomodate you as best I can.

Regards,
Jim
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:26 am

I have about 10-20 larvae swimming around in the rotifer tank tonight. I don't see them eating anything yet. From spawner's photos, I guess they don't get mouths for about three days or so. I'll keep you all posted.

EDIT: Looking with a flashlight with all other lights out, I see many more larvae than I thought. Hard to count, but I'd estimate at least double what I originally estimated. Big variation in size; the largest are probably 2x the size of the smallest. I still don't see any of them doing anything besides floating around and swimming to avoid bubbles, in response to the flashlight, etc. I've witnessed no strikes at the rotifers yet.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:47 am

All dead this morning! 8 hours ago they were fine. Too few of them in the tank to cause an ammonia spike (I think), plus, there was Amqel in there and live phyto, too. Lights were left off. Was this a mistake?
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby "Umm, fish?" » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:35 pm

If you can get the micro guys to give you a measurement across the mouth (once they've developed mouths) that can help to rule out possibilities of first foods and possibly do a lot of good for future attempts with them. And, of course, we're all pretty much suckers for any larval pictures you can manage to get. :)
Andy

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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby Luis A M » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:38 pm

Hard to say what was wrong :? You´re dealing with probably the most difficult damsel larvae.Perhaps they were never raised.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:41 pm

I'll have to see if they lay more eggs, and try to focus on getting pictures at different hours/days post hatch. I'll work with micro guys, if I get future eggs.

Anybody have any idea if I can expect more spawning, now that they've done it once? If so, is there a usual frequency?
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby Luis A M » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:02 pm

I don´t know,but damsels typically keep spawning indefinitely 8)
See that Spawner could reach the 10 days mark using copepod naups...
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby Midnight Angel » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:49 pm

Years ago I had these guys spawn for me all the time. They will be regular. I had one male and four females. They would cover the whole back of the tank glass. I never could get them to spawn on anything but the glass. :roll: So I never tried to raise them. Like Luis said this is one of the hardest fish to raise. And they are so cheap most just don't bother. But they are by far my favorite damsels and any pics you can post would be cool. Good luck with them.


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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:04 pm

Oh, Great! Just what I need... a totally aggressive male chromis in my tank every couple of weeks! This last time, he caused so much commotion in the tank that he managed to scare my very large Tridacna crocea clam off of its perch! I'll probably try to trap them and move them to a broodstock tank if this keeps up, just to keep peace in the display tank!

As I recall, chromis are really difficult to net. Anybody have any special tricks (besides taking out all of the live rock, which is NOT an option) on how to catch these guys?!?!?

If I do get future spawns, I'll try hard to get you all some pictures.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:29 pm

They're at it again! My wife and I saw the spawning taking place today. Same spot on the side of the overflow and some on the tank back glass. Last time was 13 days ago.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby Midnight Angel » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:19 pm

Yep.........what did I tell ya.........regular and on the glass. :lol: The spawns might even be more often in time. I don't remember exactly how often mine spawned but I seem to remember a time when the back glass was almost always covered in eggs.



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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby spawner » Thu May 06, 2010 1:58 pm

Hi guys. Just got a hatch from green chromis last night. The rock was loaded with 3-4 days of spawns. Camera was not charged :(

Anyway, they are extremely small and will require our Parvo at first feeding.

They need no real attention after the spawn. I just kept them in a cup for a few days with a slow bubble rate in a water bath and then moved them to the larval tank last night when the embryos were moving and place them over top a small air trickle. There are several days of hatching to follow. Great hatch so far.

If you notice your male JIm he will not really tend to the eggs, rather he is just on alert and everyone in the tank is on notice not to get near his rock. That is how the aquarists alert me to a spawn is the change in male behavior. Brown chromis from the Atlantic are similar to this. Blue's just leave the spawn. That alone is interesting behavior from three closely related fish. Should make a nice paper.

Just wish I could find my battery charger. The eggs are lime white at first spawn, then go to a striped green/yellow larvae near hatching. They look very similar to the blue chromis.
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Re: Green Chromis spawn in Display

Postby JimWelsh » Thu May 06, 2010 2:12 pm

My pair do keep spawning, and it is really obvious when it happens because of the change of the male's behavior. Since in our case, his "rock" is the back glass of the 210 gal aquarium, just about anybody in the tank who moves gets his "warnings". :roll: He gets really worked up to the point where he is obviously panting, and stresses everybody out. I had to move my clam because it was staying closed up from his antics. Good luck with the spawn, and please keep us posted!
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