Clown Hatchery Blog

Clown Hatchery Blog

Postby Miles » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:45 am

Im starting a blog to document my trials and tribulations on statring up a home hatchery. I hope it may be helpful to other newbies like me, and maybe get some feedback from the veterans. Quick intro...
Miles from Tallahasse. Network Admin by day, father and fish addict by nite. I grew up with a tropical tank as a kid, dodged sharks while surfing in the atlantic, lived under water for a few years in the Navy on subs, and now fish in the Gulf on my little boat .... so naturally, saltwater tanks became the way to go when I got back into aquariums 3 yrs ago. 5 tanks later, I have a 90 gal reef setup and due to enormous costs(who knew?), I've decided to try my hand at breeding clowns to help offset my spending and maybe actually make a profit eventually. I've lived in these boards for a few weeks, read cover to cover Hoff's and Wilkerson's books multiple times (Wilkersons is a must) and have now begun pairing fish. Continued....
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Postby Miles » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:03 pm

I already had a 30gal tank full of cichlids which were given away to a better 180 gal home, a 10 gallon freshwater tank whose 4 inhabitants were donated to the Florida Dept of Agriculture display tank in the Capital, and 10 gal tank at my office with a false percula, green chromis and a clarkii. The Clarkii caused the chromis to seek refuge under my desk one nite (fish chip anyone), then decided to try and swallow the perc. He was returned to the LFS that day :) So now I have and empty 30, empty 10, a lonely false perc, and a 20 gal in the shed... what to do???? Ahhh yes, fill them up with pairs... I already have a large Cinnamon so one more smaller mate will be a fast pair to learn from... or so I thought. I got the LFS to order me 4 B&Ws and a med Cinnamon to pair up with the large. What I got was 4 misbarred B&W's (missing most of tail bars) and an xtra small (.5 inches) Cinnamon. I was not too happy, but I took 2 of the B&W's just again as a 'test' pair to learn from and left them the Cinnamon larvae they tried to sell me. Cont...
Last edited by Miles on Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Miles » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:37 pm

I take my 2 misbar'd B&W's and put them in my office 10gal with the lonely regular false perc. One of the B&W's is a bit bigger than the other 2 so some dominance challenges began immediately... Great!!! This should produce a female quick I figured, and a pair should soon follow. I have also set up the 30 gal to be the broodstock tank for the Cinn pair-to-be, and the 10 gal for a pair of B&W (if I can find some normal bars). I send out a few emails looking for good B&Ws... I finally get confirmation, and a guarantee from Saltwaterfish.com that their B&W's are from ORA, and not misbarred. They get my order for 3 B&W, and a med Cinn. They came in, and are all happy in their new tanks. I added the new cinn and my current cinn at the same time and they immediately start their dominance display and seemed to get along well within a few hours. Great... 2nd pair already I'm thinking.... but one catch. My large Cinn I have now learned is an Austrailian Cinn, not a regular Cinn... So I have paired a dark maroon with a bright orange cinn. What the heck... I can still use them for learning how to hatch and raise fry. Maybe they will produce a new hybrid worth millions :) But at least they like each other right.... Well, the first morning after the lights came up, the new med cinn is cowering behind a small rock and hasnt come out. So much for them being buddies like the first day in the tank. Cont...
Last edited by Miles on Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Miles » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:59 pm

So here's where Im at, DEC 14th, 2007

90 gal reef tank for display- 1 false perc, a damsel, and a few tangs
30gal - two diff breeds of cinnamons that dont have anything to do with each other (only 3 days together though)
10 gal - 3 B&W juvies I'm feeding all they will eat, to get them to grow
10 gal - 2 misbar'd B&Ws and 1 false perc hanging out, waiting for the B&Ws to pair up.

Im at work on Sat the 15th (computer guys always have to work) and while looking at my tank in the office, I have a thought... what happens if the false perc pairs up with a B&W... not good. So I scoop him up and take him to the house and dump him in the 90 reef. The 2 false percs battle it out and they end up on opposite sides of the tank... perfect. I dont want to try and find the eggs in the reef, if they survive the damsel, and crabs, and starfish... Plus, I want to focus on the Cinns and B&Ws. And since that is not what I want, guess what... the false percs are now best buds and hung out all day Sun and all Mon eve... Figures... the two fish I have no intention on doing anything with, may be my first true pair. Looks like I may need a new to set up another 10 gal just for them. Too bad I have no place to put it yet... the fish room is still in thought phase. I guess I need to get on to the planning and building phase. I will get some photos soon...
But I did think ahead on the business side... ClownHatchery.com was available, so it may eventually become a website that I can sell some fish... way down the road... if I can get some pairs to pop out some eggs. Now comes the hard part. Hurry up and wait.
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Postby Miles » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:22 pm

Quick update... the WC Cinn is still cowering wherever he can, and nowhere near starting a courtship. He is probly not even half the size of the large anyway. They both stay in opposite corners of the 30 gal tank.

I set up another 10 gal for the false percs and moved them out of the 90 gal reef. They were getting real cozy, and the larger one seemed to be looking at areas of the tank she'd never been before... like a place to lay eggs. Plus (and its probly my imagination) she is looking a bit more plump to me. I would have a stroke if they paired up in 5 days. The larger one has started developing a few black spots that were not there a week ago... Is this something that happens with age, or sexual maturity? Anyone seen this before?

I will start building my tank stand over the next week in the garage, as the wife gave me a real dirty look after she saw the 3rd tank in the baby's nursery. But at least I have until May to get them out :)
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Postby Miles » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:26 pm

Got my first stand built in the garage today. I went with a simple design... AKA like Kathys :) I had about 10 2x4s in the shed and a few pieces of plywood left over from the 2004/2005 hurricane season. I did a simple 4x8' table so I can work around all sides. I cut some 2x4s in thirds (32 inches) and doubled them up to make the six 4x4 leg posts. I made two layers of 1/2" plywood for the top. Total height is 33" so I should be able to reach in the tanks fairly easy. I have some tank requests on craigslist for 20s as growouts and 55/75s for sumps. Hopefully I can find some soon.
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Postby Miles » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:46 am

I covered my table in vinal floor covering so it looks a bit neater than plywood. I moved my two 10 gal tanks to garage and set them up on the new table, and broke down the 30 gal with the cinnamons. They are all still stand alone systems. Since the two cinnamons were different species, I decided not to play frankenstien and I split them up. I put my large cinn back in the reef tank, and shes much happier. I put the other in another 10 gal in the garage with a Cardinal recouperating from the attacks of a damsel in the reef tank.
Current home set up:
10 gal w false perc pair
10 gal w 3 B&W juvies (about to take the small one out and get him another mate)
10 gal w 1 cardinal and 1 cinnamon
90 gal display reef
Office:
10 gal w B&W misbared pair(contemplating moving this set up home)
Last edited by Miles on Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mpedersen » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:28 pm

It's my understanding that Amphiprion frenatus will have red pelvic fins, while A. melanopus will have black. Yours has black, which makes it A. melanopus (Cinnamon Clown) however, I've seen may fish which break the rules...can't say one way or another for certain as I'm no expert ;)

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Postby Miles » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:18 pm

That narrows it down. Thanks! But there are no less than 10 color variants to them also. I guess I 'll have to keep checking the WYSIWYG sites to buy a match. Mine was returned to the LFS from someone whos tank was too small. Shes about 6 inches long. My B&W juvies will be spawning before I locate a mate :(
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Some photos

Postby Miles » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:28 pm

My internet is satellite, and uploading takes forever, so the image size may be a bit small.

Setup: All stand alone systems for now. Waiting for a cheap 55/75 to find me. Then I will make the sump, drill and plumb, and build light/power stands for some NO shop lights and plugs.
Image

False Perc Pair 1
ImageImage

B&W Juvies (Aren't they cute)
ImageImage

I have on order as of today, another B&W to split my trio and make 2 pairs, and a mated pair of False Percs. That will give me 2 good pairs each to start of with, and a pair of misbared B&Ws.
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Postby Miles » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:13 am

My mated pair came in and they are looking good. I doubt they are spawing yet, but they are definitly a pair. And my 4th B&W came in so I can split my trio into two pairs. But lucky me they sent 2! Now I have 5 B&W juvies. Not that I am complaining of a free $40 fish, but I had to set up a 5 gal hex to put him somewhere. I'd put him in my reef tank, but my damsel would tear him to shreds. Im still nursing a cardinal back to health from his onslaught. So here is where I stand...

2 pair of False Percs
2 pair of B&W Percs normal barred
1 pair of B&W Percs misbarred

The False pairs are getting close to spawning size I think, and so are the misbar B&Ws so I will be focusing on them first. The normal B&Ws are still small (1.5") so they are a few months away from dropping eggs. I am done buying fish for now, and will start looking at getting my phyto and rot cultures going. There is another aquacultuist here in town that I will be getting my live starter cultures from. I may play with brine shrimp hatching just to see. I'm sure all the pairs and my reef would love the treat.
I'm still waiting on the LFS owner to bring in a used 75 gal I will be using for a sump, so I can start making a single broodstock system. I've had some heater issues the last 2 days so I really want to get to a single system setup to minimize single point failures.
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Postby Miles » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:40 am

Its official... The Clown Hatchery is in business! At least as far as the government is concerned :) Now I can write off all my expenses, and hopfully get some cost breaks from vendors. I rearranged a bit this weekend and put all my tanks on the same side of the work bench. This is in preparation for getting them all plumbed to the common sump. I also moved the mis barred B&W pair from my office to the house so I can keep all the pairs together. I also was able to trap the devilish lemon damsel in the reef tank with a soda bottle trap. This let me put the 5th B&W juvie in the display tank so hes not so lonely in his 5 gal hex. Now... how do I fast track the pairs to lay eggs? Victoria's Secret should be putting out their Valentine special soon. Maybe that will help 8)
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Postby Dman » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:22 am

I've noticed that our B&W pairs like warmer waters, 84-86F. So they went into their own system.
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Postby Fishboy42 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:13 pm

Just give the pairs a nice quiet place and lots of quality food :)

I like your avatar; is that your company logo?

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Postby Miles » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:27 pm

That is the official Clown Hatchery logo. Right now, the pairs are in the garage, facing away from any movement, and 3 sides of the tanks are covered in styrofoam. It was 20 deg F out there last week and the foam did its job perfectly. Once I get a few hatches, I will invest in a space heater and some attic insulation :)
Right now they are eating a wide array of foods... Fomula1, brine, mysis, spectrum flaks/pellets, and acually they all love betta food. Hope it isnt bad for them. I should be getting my sump this week and start setting up the single system. Anyone got a bucket of bioballs to send me :)
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Postby Barney83 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:22 am

Enjoying te log Miles,
Keep it up, and all te best with your business and breeding

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Postby Raskal311 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:11 pm

Looking forward to seeing your little buz grow! I'm starting to read up on breeding and still a little in the dark so post as much info as you can :D
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Postby mpedersen » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:33 pm

Welcome to MOFIB Raskal!
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Postby Miles » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:22 pm

Nothing new really. I did take more pictures after I rearanged that I'll post. I saw something new this morning though. The B&W I added to my reef tank was hosting my xtra large cinnamons anemone. It didn't last long though. As soon as the cinn adjusted to the lights and moved from his sleeping spot, he chased him away. But none of my TR clowns have ever touched an anemone. Only the WC. So what do you think, can I have 2 anemones, and 2 clowns in a 90? One LFS store owner told me no, that the large cinn would want to host them both, or shred the xtra anem... Any thoughts?

Setup rev2 3 - 10 gal then a 20 long split in the middle at the end.
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Pair 1
Female
Image

Male
Image

Pair 2
Image

Pair 3 Mis Barred B&Ws
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Postby Miles » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:22 am

Got my phyto and rot starter cultures on Thurs and have them brewing. I figured I get a jump start on learning the techniques before I actually get a hatch. I lost one on my B&W juvies this morning. He was looking very thin and had been breathing rapidly most of yesterday. The other 3 in the same tank (2 pairs in a 20 split) all look fine. No parameters were out of tolerance, but I did a 50% change anyway last night. I guess the free fish I got by mistake will be put to use now. And just when he was geeting cozy in the 90 with my X-large Naso tang.
Image
I've been waiting on getting a cheap wholesaler in line before I set up the common sump and plumb the broodstocks together. Im also starting to see some red cyano algae growing in 2 of my 4 tanks. I used a chemical in my office tank which had a terrible cyano problem for months. It says wait 48 hrs for results... and sure enough, 2 days later, it was gone. It didnt do anything the first 24 hrs, and I was doubting its ability. I'll bring it home and give it a shot. All 3 of my adult pairs seem to be showing some nesting behaviors, like cleaning the inside of the pots, and clearing the sand in front of the pots. Im crossing my fingers that I get a nest in the next few weeks. (human) baby # 2 is due in May, so I will need some extra diaper money :)
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Postby KathyL » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:52 pm

looks very nice!
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Postby Miles » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:17 pm

Nothing new really. Still waiting on a spawn. Someone my wife works with is taking down a 200 gallon tank, and she volunteered to take some of the fish... we just dont know what kind, or how many. She says there will be some clowns, but no idea what species. All are around 9 yrs old. Maybe we'll get a pair out of the deal. I ordered some diamond drill bits so I will be starting the single system build soon. My initial phyto/rot culture practice has been a challenge. I lost the rots, but was able to keep a phto culture going by accident. I started with live cultures of both but the rots were not multiplying at all. So I siphoned some out and some of the sludge on the bottom hoping to get some cysts and put them in a bit lower salinity than how I got them. So I had a rot, a phyto, and a new rot culture bubbling...3 bottles. none of the rots made it in either bottle, the actual phyto culture crashed and had a foamed out surface. But with no time during the week to clean them all out, I just left them bubbling. Then I noticed the bottle I siphoned the rots to for the new culture was greening up. Since the inital rot culture had some phyto in it for food... that is all that survived. I've since split it into 2 and they are both getting darker by the day so I think I can keep it going. I've tried one more time to get a rot culture restarted from the sludge from the initial culture bottle, but I'm not holding my breath. Im using the 1 gallon rubbermaid wide mouth bottles for my cultures right now, but I've saved up a few soda and juice bottles just in case. They are sitting in front of a 48" aquarium 2 T-5 lamp fixture on a 16 hour on cycle. I've also added table shrimp and scallops to the broodstock diet hoping to get better results in addition to everything else they have been eating. Just still waiting.....
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Postby Miles » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:08 pm

I got the clowns from the donor last weekend. They ended up being a mated pair of cinnamon clowns, the female has about half a normal head band and the males is almost not visible. They are still adapting to their new 30 gallon setup from the 200 they were in for 9 years. From this tear down, we also inherited about 100-125 lbs of live rock...not including what I gave to my brother in law. I also got a new job and had to bring my work tank home. All this made me reconsider some of my pairs and tanks, and who goes where. Lets see if I can make some sense here.
- 10 gal office tank brought home and torn down. Its LR with a bubble tip anemone was put in the tank with the new mated cinnamon pair. I didnt acclimate the BTA at all and 2 days later it split. Not sure if it was shock, or the move from less than clean :( conditions to perfect, new water.
- Cardinal from the work tank was dropped into the 90 reef tank, and someone nipped at his tail again, but hes fine now.
- Small Cinnamon from the work tank was put in the 20 gal long and I moved the solitary B&W clown that lost his mate to the 90 reef, to go with the extra B&W I had in there. He made it 3 hours before he swam into the intake of a powerhead while we were at lunch.
Phyto cultures seem to be going OK. I’m still able to split them and they keep greening up. They don’t seem as dark as some I’ve seen online before they start to precipitate and clump. I strained them through paper coffee filters today, so we’ll see how it goes.
I bought some rotifer cysts so I’ll try to get them going again soon. I also got some bulkheads and a magdrive pump so I can start drilling the tanks, as soon as I find a large enough glass drill bit.
Anyone got any good xxx fish videos?? Maybe some Spanish Fly :)

Requested translation:
Ich habe die Clowns letztes Wochenende vom Spender bekommen. Es ist ein Paar Cinnamon Clowns. Das Weibchen hat ein halbes normales Kopfband und beim Maennchen ist es fast nicht sichtbar. Sie sind noch dabei sich an ein 30 Gallonensystem zu gewoehnen, im Vergleich zu dem 200 Gallonensystem, in dem sie 9 Jahre lang waren. Von dieser Tankaufloesung haben wir auch 100-125 Pfund Lebengestein geerbt....ohne das, was ich zu meinem Schwager gegeben habe. Ich habe ausserdem einen neuen Job und musste mein Becken von der Arbeit nach Hause bringen. Das alles veranlasste mich, meine Paare und Becken zu ueberdenken und zu entscheiden, wen ich wohin tue. Mal sehen, ob ich hier daraus etwas Sinnvolles machen kann.
- 10 Gallonen Buerobecken nach Hause gebracht und abgebaut. Das Lebendgestein mit einer Bubbletipanemone in das Becken mit dem neuen Clownfischpaerchen gesetzt. Ich habe die Anemone ueberhaupt nicht aklimatisiert, und sie hat sich 2 Tage spaeter geteilt. Ich bin nicht sicher, ob es der Schock war, oder der Wechsel von nicht sehr sauberen :( Wasser zu perfektem, frischen Wasser.
- Kardinal vom Buerobecken wurde ins 90 Gallonen Reefbecken gesetzt. Jemand hat wieder an seinem Schwanz geknabbert, aber er ist jetzt in Ordnung.
- kleiner Cinnamonclown vom Buerobecken wurde ins lange 20 Gallonenbecken setzt, und der einzelne schwarz-weisse Clownfisch, der seinen Partner verloren hatte, ins 90 Gallonenbecken zu dem einzelnen, den ich darin hatte. Darin hat er 3 Stunden ueberlebt, bevor er in die Pumpe geschwommen ist, als wir beim Essen waren.
Phytokulturen scheinen ok zu sein. Ich kann sie immer noch teilen und sie werden wieder gruen. Sie scheinen nicht so dunkel zu sein, wie einige, die ich online gesehen habe,bevor sie ausfallen und anfangen zu klumpen. Ich habe sie heute durch einen Papierkaffeefilter gefiltert, und wir werden sehen, was daraus wird.
Ich habe Rotiferzysten gakauft und ich werde versuchen, sie wieder zu kulturieren. Ich habe ausserdem einige bulkheads (Schraubverbindungen) und eine MagdrivePumpe gekauft, so dass ich anfangen kann, die Becken zu bohren, sowie ich einen Glassbohrer mit dem richtigen Durchmesser gefunden habe.

Hat jemand einige gute Fisch.......videos? Wie waere es mit Spanischer Fliege:)
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Postby Miles » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:12 am

My new skimmer should be in today, along with a bucket of bio-balls. Im not wanting to deal with the hassle right now of self drilling tanks, so I'm going to take some 10 gal tanks to the glass cutters and get the sides drilled for the bulkhead drain fittings. Im going to start fresh with new tanks, pots, tiles etc since my current tanks have some buildup of hair algae and feather duster 'deposits', and actually a bit of coraline algae since I transplanted bits of liverock from my 90 reef tank to the broodstock tanks. That helped so I didn't have to cycle tanks, but now I have the repercussions. I'm hoping not to disrupt them too much so I want to recreate the tanks exactly the way they are setup now, just minus the crud. Once the new broodstock tanks are tied to the commmon sump and cycled, I will move the pairs one at a time after the lights go out to minimize stress as much as possible. Then I will use the 4 tanks I have now for larval and growout tanks.
No luck with the rotifer cysts, but I dropped them in a jar of new water and a tiny amount of phyto thinking the phyto would grow faster than the rots. But it never greened up, and I never saw rots. I will probly get some more live rots locally, and just drop them in a ripe green water jar. I'm up to growing 3, gallon jars of phyto. If I split them every 3 days, I'm having good results. Any longer, and they start to precipitate and sludge up the bottom. I fed an entire gallon bottle to my display tank on Sat just to see how everyone liked it. Didnt hear any complaints. Still no spawns... 3 months in.
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Postby Miles » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:12 pm

I built a bio-ball bucket tower this weekend. What I did was, cut a large hole in the top of the bucket of bio-balls, then drilled a ton of 3/8 inch holes in the botoom of the bucket. That way water can flow in the top, over all the balls, and drain out the bottom. On top of that bucket I glued an IO salt bucket to the lid of the bio-ball bucket. Of course, I pre drilled the bottom of the top bucket to act as a drain plate for the bio-balls. Now, I have 2 buckets stacked on top of each other. My tanks will drain into the top bucket and pour through a 100 micron sock. Then the water will then dribble over the bi-balls in the bottom bucket. The bucket tower will be placed in the sump with a skimmer and return pump. It doesnt sit on the bottom so it can drain. Current plans are to use a 30 gal sump that I have, but I want to get at least a 55 or 75 gal. I also bought 4 more 10 gal tanks today that I will take to get drilled this week. And you guessed it... no spawns :(
Last edited by Miles on Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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