PJ Cardinals

PJ Cardinals

Postby Noof » Wed May 02, 2007 9:42 am

Hi,
Not sure if this is in the correct forum but I am sure that someone will move it if not!

Are Pjs identical to Bangers in terms of breeding??
holding time, techniques and all?
Cheers
Nathan
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Postby Clownfish75 » Wed May 02, 2007 9:44 am

Almost in the right spot Nathan

PJs have pelagic larvae.

there are only 2 currently known tropical aquairum suitable species, both of the genus Pterapogon.

Anyway back to PJs.

THey have an estimated 1 month larval duration and will feed on rotifers as first food, but i never managed to get any to settle.

Christian
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Postby Noof » Thu May 03, 2007 8:08 am

Yeah Close but no cigar eh?

Time in the dads mouth anyone?
Hatch time in days?
When to get him to spit?
Any info that will help?
Cheers
Nathan
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Postby Clownfish75 » Thu May 03, 2007 8:53 am

Ill have a searc hon RC tomorrow see if i can find my old posts.

i think it is 6--10 days for holding the eggs.

removed egg balls fall apart fast.

i had one larvae get to about 30 days

Christian
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Postby Noof » Fri May 04, 2007 8:32 pm

Thanks Christian,
dont recommend raising them in the tank?
Will the parents eat or look after them?
Cheers
Nathan
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Postby Noof » Tue May 08, 2007 8:32 am

Ok the eggs are gone after 5 days.
The dad is back eating a lot probably to make up for lost time.
Not sure whether the eggs were eaten, scattered or hatched?... Havent seen any fry or eggs in the trickle?
Any opinions?
Oh well try again in a week or so?


Cheers

Nathan
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Postby mpedersen » Tue May 08, 2007 11:21 am

5 days? How warm was the tank? They *might* have hatched, if not they could've been very close to hatching.

My Apogon leptacanthus are 6-9 days, highly temperature dependant, typically 7 days.

My experience with Apogon margaritophorus was that the longest I ever had a fish hold was 11 days (so I can assume that brooding to term is 11 days or less)

My understanding, possibly via Frank Marini, was that Pajama's took 10-11 days. Of course, someone at ORA knows the answers to this.

Matt
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Postby "Umm, fish?" » Tue May 08, 2007 11:36 am

My experience with PJs in a colder tank (~78F) was roughly around ten days.
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Postby Noof » Wed May 23, 2007 11:32 am

Ok Take two.
The Dad is holding again tonight. Will let interested parties know as it happens

Cheers
Nathan
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Postby FMarini » Tue May 29, 2007 12:08 am

Hi Matt-
Yes I got the info from some folks at a commercial firm. Not sure what the water temp was

Christian- both Pterapogons mouth brood and hold fry til juvies, however P. Mirifica is NOT a hobby fish. It has way too many bad traits. These fish are brutal to each other (very intolerant of specifics & conspecifics), they are relatively unattractive (grey black w/ clear tail), and come from australia. However they do breed readily and successfully in the aquarium
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Postby Noof » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:23 am

Ok the father ate (spat?) the eggs on night after day nine. If I remove him and make him spit them on day nine next time do I need a kreisel?
I think that according to you guys they should have hatched on day 10 so could have been about right?
Didnt get any larvae in the sump or overflow or anywhere? as far as I can tell?
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Postby Noof » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am

Thought given the last few posts here were about PJs that I would update on my progress....... If it is called that!
THis is the egg ball. As you can see plenty of them and they hang together pretty well.

Image

Close up of the eggs through the scope.
Image

After the little fellas hatch.

Image
and
Image

As for raising..... No luck yet but I have no ss rotifers either. These are pretty difficult to find in Australia.
Any tips or pointers from anyone?
Will post these pics in the larviculture group too
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Postby driftin » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:57 am

I'm having the same problem with sourcing SS rotifers.

How did you catch the egg ball, and after how many days? Great photos!
-Jim
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Postby "Umm, fish?" » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:14 am

Ooo, very nice photos!

Looks like you're close to the coast. (Sorry. I admit that I had to Google map you. :oops: ) Any chance you could try plankton tows to try to find a first food?
Andy

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Postby Noof » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:18 pm

I tend to try to "catch" the egg ball at 8 or 9 days depending on tank availability. I just net the male and he spits straight away. Then into a kreisel type arrangement or maybe try to hand hatch by moving the egg ball a little with a pippette? Pretty backyard I admit but I have managed to get somewhere near 100 to hatch without too much trouble.

I am near the ocean and probably could try towing. Need to source a net and some brass nuts to go in the water...... although coming into summer the water is almost nice now!
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Postby driftin » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:55 am

The advice I was given on getting them to hatch:

Cut the bottom off a soda bottle. Invert the top half and cut a few windows into it, about 1 or 1-1/2 inches below where you just cut. Glue a mesh over the windows - tight enough mesh to keep the egg ball in, but open enough to allow the larvae to swim out.

Drill a hole in the cap and insert an airline. Submerge the bottle in the hatching tank, so that the windows are below the water surface. The cap with the airline is at the bottom. Put the eggball into the bottle. Set the airflow so that it very gently keeps the egg ball rolling.



Sounds a lot like a DIY brine shrimp hatchery, except for the windows. I tried making one the other night but had a hard time getting glue to stick to the plastic soda bottle. Tried super glue and a hot glue gun; next attempt will be epoxy.
-Jim
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Postby Noof » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:14 pm

Jim.
I like it,....... That soda bottle thing works a treat. Probably better than i had anticipated. Next time I may try a little more seriously!
Got them to day 13 or 12 after loosing the bulk at about day 6
Had 5 left up until they died all together probably due to the rotifer multiplication thing which would have fouled the water quite significantly. I now have one booming rot culture and no PJs left.... Doh! Next time I may have to introduce a couple of clowns to keep the rots under control?
I have a photo of the little lads but have to wait til the camera battery charges..... Maybe later.
Doing a MWP and getting married this weekend so that may be a little later?

Cheers
Noof
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