Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:04 am

I left the lights on all night. I can not find any larvae still swimming this morning.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:28 pm

Friday morning I found, a different, smaller male carrying eggs. I assume the smaller guy got them because the larger male who normally carries eggs was still holding on to the infertile eggs from the last batched. I am assuming this is from a different female as well since in the past when I knew for sure there was only one male and one female, there were never two spawns so close together - though I suppose it could have just been that since there was only one male, the female was always waiting on him.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:38 pm

I chased down the male. This smaller male is not nearly as dedicated as the larger male, he spit the whole lot of them. However this young fellow must have a higher sperm count as 100% of the eggs were fertile, compared to 75% from the other male.

Image
Image


Well, either this batch is developing more slowly, or they did not lay the eggs on Thursday night as I thought (I did not notice the eggs until Friday afternoon, so they spawning could have happened during the day on friday, I just assumed it was the night before) because clearly they still have quite a bit of yolk left. I'll see if I have any luck with artificially incubating them until tomorrow night.

Edit. I take back the bit about the fertility rate being higher in this batch. The piece I sampled was 100% fertile but that does not seem to be representative. I would estimate that fertility is similar to what it was before.

Edit again. I need to just quit pretending I have the slightest idea what I am doing. They are hatching...
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:51 am

So the batch that I collected on the 20th did not do anything. Very few of the eggs hatched and those that did were damaged in the hatching process. None were still alive the next morning.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:37 am

Last Sunday night they spawned again, this time the larger male got the eggs. Last night (being the 7th night) I chased him down and moved him to the larvae tank. I struggled more than normal catching him and he spit the eggs shortly after being placed in the larvae tank.

I made yet another attempt at an artificial hatching contraption. I made a cone out of plastic mesh (gutter guard) and placed some ridgid air line down to the bottom of the cone, bubbling ~4 bubbles per second. I added the eggs in the cone, and added 2 liters of green ISO (my ISO cultures all turned green?), rotifers, as well as a bunch of the copepods that contaminate my rotifer culture.

At least half of the eggs did not hatch. I do not know if it was the artificial hatching to blame or if this is natural. The time the male did not spit the eggs and they hatched naturally, he was still chewing on eggs that did not hatch for 6 days after the good eggs hatched. I never forced him to spit the non-hatching eggs, so I can not compare my hatching rate with his.


The larvae that did hatch faired much better than the larvae from the last batch. This morning there are many larvae actively swimming around.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:18 am

Well, morning # 2 and we still have swimmers. That makes this batch the best one yet :)

So for what I have done so far.

They hatched in water from the broodstock tank.
The first night, the main lights were off, but I left nightlight on on the other side of the room.
A few times though out the first day I added a few drops of IA nanno.
At 24 hours I added another 2 liters of green ISO.
The second night I left the lights on.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:04 pm

Day 3 and and they are not all dead yet(I'm so optimistic aren't I :) ). I may pull one this evening to photograph.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:56 pm

Well, I succeeded. Sometime between 3:00 and 6:00 today they all died....Based on how quickly they all crashed I'm thinking it must have been a water quality issue.

Anyway, I collected some of the dead bodies off the bottom and photographed them. They are so much more cooperative photo subjects when they are dead....

Image
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:48 pm

The large male is carrying eggs again. But he has a cloudy eye - not sure what to do, I don't want to do anything to try to treat it since he is holding eggs, but at the same time, I don't want to loose him. The funny thing is that if he was not carrying eggs, I probably would not feel the need to treat him, but since he is not eating It seems like he is going to have a harder time getting over it.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:58 pm

Last night the next batch was due. Again the male spit the eggs. I put them in the same incubator as last time, but this time I observed the eggs with a red LED flashlight, and occasionally stirred them around to hopefully facilitate hatching. I think the extra effort was worth it. I have far more swimmers this morining than I had from the last batch.

Either I am not adding as many rotifers as normal each time I dose the tank, or these guys are really having a feast. I have added rotifers 4 times already today. In previous batches the rotifers grew faster than they were being consumed down.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:24 pm

60 hours after hatching and there are still a lot of swimmers.

Image
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby Luis A M » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:40 pm

Looks like a full gut? :?
Good luck with them,Will!
Have they been raised before?I think they are in Witt´s book.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:16 am

They are definitely trying to eat. This afternoon I observed them striking at rotifers.

Yes, they have been raised before. ORA sells them. And yes, they are in Witts book - though according to his book the larvae should hatch at 3.4-3.9mm - mine hatch 2.7mm, I'm not sure what to think of the discrepancy or how it will effect the other info he gives about raising the larvae.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby driftin » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:22 am

Congrats Will!
-Jim
driftin
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:14 am
Location: Chicago
State/Region: Chicago
Country: Ill

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:33 am

108 hours (4.5 days) after hatching and I still have quite a few left.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:17 pm

Yesterday I ran out of Live ISO so I switched to enriching the rotifers with selcon. Then for the night I added a bit of IA NAN to keep the rotifers happy though the night. This morning all larvae were dead. I am definitely noticing a correlation between adding IA and all the larvae dying. I did not mention it before, but the last batch died a few hours after adding IA for the first time as well.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:20 pm

The next egg-ball hatched last night. Wish me luck....
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby Luis A M » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:27 pm

What´s your protocol this time?
Best luck! 8)
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:40 pm

Well the basic protocol will be as follows.

Larvae tank was filled with water from the broodstock system. The larvae where hatched artificially in a mesh cone with an air stone under it.

Water is kept green only LIVE phytoplankton. No IA. Mostly I plan to use (greened out) ISO but if I run low on ISO I will use TET. If I run out of live algae, I will just let the water go clear, rather than adding IA.

Starting on Day 3 I will do large water changes at least once a day. When the water turns clear (the rotifers eat all the algae), I will syphon the detritus from the bottom of the larvae tank and then drip broodstock water into the larvae tank until most of the rotifers have been flushed out. Once the rotifers are mostly cleared out, I will cut of the flow into the tank and add 2 liters of algae. The rotifers will be enriched with Selcon before being returned to the larvae tank.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby Luis A M » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:18 pm

IMHO,parent´s tank water is a bad choice,which we drag from our FW past.New ASW is best.No toxins,no bacteriae.Eggs can withstand major changes in chemical and physical conditions.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:14 pm

Luis A M wrote:IMHO,parent´s tank water is a bad choice,which we drag from our FW past.New ASW is best.No toxins,no bacteriae.Eggs can withstand major changes in chemical and physical conditions.


I will give freshly mixed water a try for the next batch.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:55 pm

Well, I have an interesting update.

Last week my rotifers crashed, both my main culture and the ones in the larvae tank. Rotifer density got really low and the larvae all died - or so I thought. After going a few days with out seeing any larvae left I went to clean out the tub and what did I find? There was 1 really Fat larvae. I don't know what he had been eating, but what ever it was he was loving it - it's gut was bulging. About the same time, I had recovered my rotifer culture so I restocked the larvae tank with rotifers.

Then yesterday I discovered that I actually had 2 larvae left. So here I am 7 days in and I still have 2 survivors.
Will
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby Luis A M » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:38 pm

Go Will! :D
They still too small for bbs?.
Luis
User avatar
Luis A M
Moderator
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:34 pm
Location: Buenos Aires,Argentina

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby Surfzone » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:50 pm

That's awesome What temp are you keeping the brood stock at? that my have something to do with the hatch size. lower temps will produce larger larva but they are in the egg longer and warmer temps will produced smaller larva but in the egg for a shorter period of time.
Kevin
Surfzone
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:29 am
Location: Charleston, S. Carolina

Re: Breeding Log - Pajama Cardinal

Postby William » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:14 pm

Luis A M wrote:They still too small for bbs?.


Witt's book says add rotifers at around 10-12 days.
User avatar
William
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:19 am

PreviousNext

Return to Sphaeramia



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest