Salarias fasciatus breeding

Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:58 am

Hi All,

I have 2 'lawnmower blennys' I believe Salarias fasciatus in my main display. Coinsedently it appears they are a pair and have laid eggs. I have noticed some courting behaviour for the past month now and today I noticed eggs. They have layed in one of the return pipes. The male is on guard and the female hops in the pipe from time to time. My questions are if anybody knows:
How long to eggs hatch
What can I feed the fry (I have rotifers/greenwater on hand)
are they pelagic
etc

I'm not sure if I can collect the eggs this time due to where they are laid, but I will add some pipe attached under the return pipe to encourage them to lay in there for next time.
If anybody has any info to share that would be great. I think these guys might pose me some challenges so any help would be great.

Cheers
Captain
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby r33fking » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:44 pm

8 days till hatch at 27 C.
S or SS rots .

most of my experience is with S. ramosus but they are very similar fish .
i hatched artificially in my tubs with heavy aeration and got 100% hatch .
the farthest i got was to day 4 when i had mass mortality .
NH3 levels went up to .25ppm .
not sure if it was due to algae pastes decomposing or larvae dying off .
there were thousands of larvae !!!
my next attempt will involve an extremely high rotifer density and separating the larvae into multiple tubs . green water didnt seem to keep the larvae off of the sides of the tub.
maybe a good candidate for kriesel culture . or a huge larvae bin.
small mouthed larvae,
good luck with them ,
Aron
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:16 am

Thanks for that info. Greatly appreciated. I will certainly give these guys a go.
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:29 am

r33fking wrote:8 days till hatch at 27 C.
S or SS rots .

most of my experience is with S. ramosus but they are very similar fish .
i hatched artificially in my tubs with heavy aeration and got 100% hatch .
the farthest i got was to day 4 when i had mass mortality .
NH3 levels went up to .25ppm .
not sure if it was due to algae pastes decomposing or larvae dying off .
there were thousands of larvae !!!
my next attempt will involve an extremely high rotifer density and separating the larvae into multiple tubs . green water didnt seem to keep the larvae off of the sides of the tub.
maybe a good candidate for kriesel culture . or a huge larvae bin.
small mouthed larvae,
good luck with them ,
Aron


Did the eggs hatch after lights out?
When did you remove the eggs from the parents?
Have you tried using live nanno culture to try and supress any ammonia/nitrite probs? I will be using live nanno as I have on hand all the time with regular partial water changes to keep water quality good.
Will try a BRT to start with.
My first hurdle will be getting the pair to lay in a removeable pipe that I have hung from the return pipe under where thay have laid this time.

cheers
Captain
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby r33fking » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:50 pm

i just spent 45mins typing a response to this post and the site logged me out and now its gone !!
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby r33fking » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:51 pm

i would recommend to start small with only a portion of the spawn . im pretty sure the NH3 spike was due to some larvae die off . my 20 gallon tub was not big enough for that many larvae !

i pulled the nest on the 7th day for incubation .
only about half of the nest hatched that night so i was thinking you could let the first wave hatch in one tub then move the nest to another tub for the second wave . if you have 3 tubs (or more ) you may want to separate them out further.
with larvae like these there are so many un answered questions , we really need to experiment with rearing methods and by separating them into small batches and making subtle variations to our protocol between tubs we can maximize our learning potential per spawn/hatch/larval run.
the eggs were quite durable . i didnt disinfect or dip the nest . the hatching was not the hard part .
all the eggs had hatched by the night of the 8th day .
i hadnt tried live greenwater with these but i did notice the larvae exhibited the same behavior with and without greenwater as far as clinging to the sides of the tub .
the fry are extremely photo-tactile . even with dim overhead lighting they gathered where it shined . they seemed so determined to be in the light that i think they ignored the rots .
proper lighting protocol i feel is one of the many questions to be answered with these guys . it seemed to play a major roll in wether they would feed or not .
fwiw i was thinking of using actinic lighting on my next run to hopefully mute the clumping behavior and also bring out the fluorescent pigments in the zooplankton to aid in visual acuity .

as far as getting them to spawn where you want them too . mine seem to like anything from 1" - 2" pvc with a 45 degree bend .
if that doesnt work there is a great thread on removing eggs from aquarium spawns with a drinking straw and air line siphon apparatus ,that also details incubation in an aerated glass funnel . check it out!
good luck and keep me posted ,
Aron
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:33 pm

Thanks again Aron for your imput.
I have another batch of eggs. The last batch hatched at 8 days so after that I covered my return pipes with plastic mesh to keep the blennys out. I added some pipes suspended from cable ties under the return lines and presto they laid in one of these. They took preference to the 1" with an elbow over the 1 1/4" straight pipe. There seems to be a good batch off eggs, they are a lot smaller than clownfish eggs would estimate 500+.The male spends a lot of time guarding the clutch.
Unfortunately I will be away when these guys are due to hatch, but I have a house minder staying who has experience with marines so I will set him a challenge to hatch, add rots and greenwater to a BRT and see if we can get these guys raised.
Cheers
Captain
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:21 pm

Well to my suprise I have managed to hatch the batch we removed at day 8. However the eggs did not hatch until day 12, a liitle strange but non the less I have some larvae to try and raise. The pair laid again 2 days after removing the eggs, as we replaced with a new pipe keeping the pair happy.

So far day 2 the larvae are happily swimming around and not against the egde . I have them in a BRT with rots and I am keeping the water tinted with live greenwater. I'm not sure if they are eating the rots as yet but I will increase the rotifer population to ensure there is plenty to go round. There are hundreds of larvae too many to count.

Keep you posted....
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby r33fking » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:56 am

NEAT!!
so they seem to prefer elbows in the spawning site .. cool info . i wonder if all Salarias genus prefer the same elbows ?

at what density are your rotifers stocked ?

how are you circulating the brt? is it standard airstone under the stand pipe ?

im just wondering if the solution in keeping them in the water column is green water or circulation?

definitely keep me posted...
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:15 am

Hi again,
yes elbows seem to be the preferred choice.
my pair laid again whilst still with the 2nd nest. they laid 2 days prior to the next hatching. This time I missed this hatch which was 8 days. The spawning pipe was literally covered, now a big patch after last nights hatch.

The larvae are now day five. I took one out today to observe in a glass vial. Certainly appear to be feeding, and growing.

The BRT is just set up with an airstone with aprrox 5lts water. I am performing twice daily water changes of around 1lt. I am replacing water with approx 600ml greenwater and the balance with water from my growout system.

My rotifer density in the brt is approx 100-120/ml. The greenwater is needed twice daily to keep up with the rotifers.

Will be interesting if I get these through meta whether or not they will take NHBBS and if they become bottom dwellers?????????

Fingers crossed I get some to this stage. I have approx 200 still alive so odds are still good.

cheers
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby r33fking » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:47 pm

i have had a theory with these fish and also others that the standard 10-15 rotifers per ml is not enough .
i had wanted to try a small batch with such a high food density the larvae would consume them involuntarily just by swimming and breathing .
a friend of mine uses this approach with freshwater danio fry .
im glad to hear they are doing soo well in a small brt .
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:52 am

Small update. I have around 20 larvae at DAY 11 now. They are now around 6mm long almost doubled in size. Still look to small to take NHBBS so still on the rotifers for now. Kept up with the water changes to keep the water quality good.
Hatching another batch of eggs tonight. Again there are 2 batches of eggs in the pipe. The pair laid 6 days apart. Very active pair!!!
I will try a flow through BRT this time round to see if this helps. I will have a small drip being fed to the BRT with the overflow screened to keep the rotifers in.
Still lots to learn with this species.
cheers
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby FishboyBT » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:26 pm

Very Cool! Great job. Keep us posted on their progress. Any chance we could get some pics?
-Blake
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:24 am

Well I managed to get 2 to survive to the 17 day mark. I tried NHBBS but they didn't eat. I just kept up with the rots as they seemed to eat them.
The next batch hatched into my BRT this time round I tried a flow through system on a drip feed. Unfortunately the overflow screen was comprimised so I lost the hatch. I think keeping the rots inriched with greenwater will be hard with a flow through method unless I had very large volumes of rots on hand.
I have another batch of eggs so I'm looking to try something different this time round. I'm looking to set up a 60lt tub filled with plenty of greenwater/rots and see how they go. I just have to get my stocks of greenwater up so I can give this method a go.
It seems the parents are willing to keep the egg laying up so It will give me some opportunitys to try some different techniques.
cheers
Captain.
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby Clownfish75 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:59 am

hi

Well done on getting wha tyou have, those things normally want ot kill each other.

If your interested i would be keen to try to get osme eggs shipped up here, not hard to do but could be worth the effort.

Christian
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby PaulG » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:02 pm

How big are teh adults that are spwaning?
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby captain » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:00 pm

Clownfish75 wrote:hi

Well done on getting wha tyou have, those things normally want ot kill each other.

If your interested i would be keen to try to get osme eggs shipped up here, not hard to do but could be worth the effort.



Christian


Thanks for your offer Christian. I would like to give it some more tries to see if I can get some success. If all else fails it's ceratinly an option. Do you have any ideas on what might work with these guys? Was doing a little reading last night and found an article on neon goby. They take 18-20 days to reach meta and become a bottom dweller. they used both rots and BBS to feed. Maybe is was close at 17 days????

PaulG wrote:How big are teh adults that are spwaning?


The female is around 7cm and the male is around 10cm. I'm not sure they are actually S. Fasciatus. Here's some pics if anyone has an idea of a positive ID. They are locally collected from SE Qld found around rocky headlands, rockpools etc.

The male(note the extra skin flap on head)
Image

The female(no additional skin flap on head)
Image

Cheers
Craig
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby PaulG » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:14 pm

Thanks Craig,

I don't know if they are S. Fasciatus or not but the method to sex the male via the 'crest' on the head is documented in the paper 'Seasonal changes in reproductive and physical condition, sexual dimorphism, and male mating tactics in the jeweled blenny Salaria fasciatus' by Awata, Miura, seki, Sagawa, Sato, Sakai
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby jolson » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:00 am

wanted to bump this post to see how things were going, this is a favorite fish of mine and I would love to spawn it
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby r33fking » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:05 pm

definitely not s. fasciatus but nice looking blennies. where did you get them ? how's the progress?
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby BaboonScience » Fri May 13, 2011 3:36 pm

Although it is hard to tell from the pics, they do look like something in the Blenniella or Istiblennius genus. I would bet the former.

Are they still spawning?
Have you had any success?
John
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Re: Salarias fasciatus breeding

Postby BaboonScience » Fri May 13, 2011 3:40 pm

Paul
Thanks for that paper.
The link to full text is:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/2r745775952hn353/

John
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