Larvae collection using a trap

Larvae collection using a trap

Postby Amie » Sat May 12, 2007 8:57 pm

My collection techniques have totally changed since I made a trap that works great. It was designed for shrimp, but I have been using it for anemonefish as well. Here's a video of it


http://youtube.com/watch?v=VTYDTu7mK8o
Last edited by Amie on Sun May 13, 2007 2:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby fin farm » Sun May 13, 2007 12:06 am

interesting looking trap. do you have any other pictures of the trap so that I can figure out how it works. welcome also

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Postby Amie » Sun May 13, 2007 2:59 pm

I have pictures, but can't figure out how to add them. Can they be on my computer? Or do I have to have them downloaded somewhere on the internet?
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Postby aomont » Mon May 14, 2007 12:12 am

You have to create an internet album and use the link to your photos.
I´m trying www.photobucket.com (NOT photobucked.com ;))
Anderson.
Last edited by aomont on Mon May 14, 2007 1:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby KathyL » Mon May 14, 2007 12:14 am

That's
www.photobucket.com

unfortunately, spelling is critical here.

Good suggestion, though. It's the photo website that I use. :D
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Postby Dman » Mon May 14, 2007 12:34 am

Welcome, and then I posted to the other thread, go figure
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Postby aomont » Mon May 14, 2007 1:00 am

Thanks Kathy ! ;)
I just edited it to avoid mistakes.
Anderson.
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pictures or larval trap

Postby Amie » Mon May 14, 2007 4:20 am

Thanks for your help, let's see if I can upload some pictures ...

Image
The horizontal line is where it needs to rest in the water in order to work properly. The top of the bottle is cut off as well. This is so you can syphon the larvae out after they have been caught. (Trust me, this is the easiest way to get them out.)


Image
This picture is looking up at it while it is working in the tank.

So, here's how it works. You place it in the tank and secure it. I just use a wire that wraps around the top pvc pipe and comes out of the tank. Then I have a strong magnet on both sides of the glass to hold the wire in place. Next, put a small light at the bottom of the open pvc pipe. I use a blue led light that I've wired to a 9-volt battery. Put an airline hose down the open pipe and clamp it so the tubing is just above the opening at the bottom of the pvc. Start the pump up and you should have suction. Adjust the air flow to it's not too strong to kill them, but strong enough to pull them in. (You have to play with this a little.)

Turn the lights out and go to bed. If I'm catching cleaner shrimp, I leave them in the trap for the entire next day and put nauplii inside the bottle with them. By the time I take them out, their tummies are orange and they are stronger than if I had taken them out in the morning.
Last edited by Amie on Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby KathyL » Mon May 14, 2007 8:46 am

Brilliant!

If you just friction fit the final T, instead of glue, you can remove that section when it is time to collect and just lift the whole thing out and pour the babies into their tank, thus avoiding the siphon step.

Or just turn the last section up 180 degrees...
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Postby Amie » Mon May 14, 2007 1:17 pm

KathyL wrote:Brilliant!

If you just friction fit the final T, instead of glue, you can remove that section when it is time to collect and just lift the whole thing out and pour the babies into their tank, thus avoiding the siphon step.

Or just turn the last section up 180 degrees...



Been there, done that - larvae all over the tank and floor. It was a disaster each time I tried it. Actually, the only thing that is glued is the bottle to the pvc. Everything else is friction fit. But the action of pulling the tubes apart can cause a jerking motion to the trap. Or, when you pour them out, some will also get poured out through the top of the bottle. Or, the whole thing will fall apart in your hands. (Had all 3 happen.) The syphon method takes seconds, it's well worth it. I've tried about 5 different ways of getting them out of the tank and the syphon method is the easiest, quickest, cleanest and, most importantly, most reliable.
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Postby spk » Tue May 15, 2007 12:42 am

Amie,
Great post. Thanks for the details. Now come the questions though.

What size mesh did you use?

Steve
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mesh size

Postby Amie » Wed May 16, 2007 2:57 am

I'm sorry, I should have replied sooner, but I've been thinking about a good response all day. I'm not sure I have one though.

I've tried everything from 35 microns to 100+ microns. The 35 clogs so fast because it filters so much out of the water. Once it's clogged, it stops working entirely and the larvae fall back into the tube and can swim out into the main tank. But, 35 microns would be great because it would keep rotifers inside of it. You could actually raise the shrimp in their parent tank if there was a way to keep the trap from getting clogged. I've got a bottle made that has 35 micron mesh almost completely all the way around it .. the more surface area, the longer it will take to get clogged. If that works, I'll stick with it. I have some peppermint's hatching tomorrow.

Something around 55 microns would be ideal instead of 35. A rotifer sieve is 55 or 56. I've been trying to buy 55 micron silk screen off of ebay, but haven't been successful yet. Micron mesh is pretty expensive. If someone wants to go in on an auction with me, that would help. 10' of it goes for around $60. I only need 2'.

If you are not going to put food in the trap but just want to catch the larvae, then something like 60-100 microns is fine. I've bought cotton fabric and that worked okay but clogged somewhat quickly (I tried that at Adam B.'s recommendation/insistance). I've also tried that sheer fabric that you use as curtain fabric - I just can't remember what that's called right now. That worked quite well. I've also used fabric from a carbon bag filter - that worked great too. But neither of those would hold rotifers - if that was needed.

I have found that the best way to attach any fabric is with silicone. Just blob it on and stick the fabric to it. I've tried quite a few different things and it always peeled off or gapped.

I'm planning to modify the trap to hold macroalgae when not in use as a trap. I will pull off the bottle used to catch the larvae, and put on a different bottle that will point sideways instead of up. The mesh will be much larger for this because of the clogging issue. It will also screw open at the end so I can get the algae out to change or unclog it. Then, when it's time to use the trap again, I'll just replace the section with the bottle again. This way, the animals in the tank will be used to the contraption in the tank all the time - not just when things are hatching. I hope it works.


So, hope that answered your question. :?
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Postby spk » Wed May 16, 2007 3:11 am

Amie,

Fantastic answer. Thanks for the reply. I will digest this and then problably have more questions.

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Re:

Postby Amie » Wed May 16, 2007 3:38 am

spk wrote:Amie,

Fantastic answer. Thanks for the reply.
Steve


Thanks, not too long, huh? :lol:
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Postby spk » Wed May 16, 2007 3:39 pm

Amie,
An answer can never be tooooo long.
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Postby clemenomea » Fri May 18, 2007 1:33 am

Wow-Great thread Amie! You may try contacting Florida Aqua Farms- I believe they sell mesh sheets if you request it. Otherwise there are some filter socks they sell in various micron sizes that you could cut up and use.

Do you think it would work to paste in two mesh sizes- one up to the water line of 53 micron, and one just a hair above the water line of 100 micons or so? That way if the first clogs water could spill out the second and perhaps still keep the fry in??? Just a thought- I am definitely going to try building one of these.

Cheers,
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Postby spk » Fri May 18, 2007 9:04 am

Amie,

Having looked at this again and read it some more. I have another question for you.

There are two open pipes, whihc one do you put the air into? The one that is open both ends?

THanks

Steve
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Postby KathyL » Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 am

Have you seen this place?:
http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/cmn.cfm

You can order smaller sizes of mesh at a reasonable price. Any mesh opening size you like.
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Postby spk » Fri May 18, 2007 5:53 pm

Kathy,

Nice link there,
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Postby "Umm, fish?" » Fri May 18, 2007 10:01 pm

Ooo, Kathy, you rock! I've only ever seen the sites that make you buy a mile of mesh as a minimum.

I've also used wedding dress liner material sold at fabric stores (all nylon or all polyester). The only problem is that you don't know the mesh size.
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Postby KathyL » Fri May 18, 2007 10:33 pm

Thanks, they have some other interesting products there too.
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Re:

Postby Amie » Sat May 19, 2007 1:18 pm

Sorry I've been away for a few days - family emergency. So I've gotta play some catchup.

KathyL wrote:Have you seen this place?:
http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/cmn.cfm

You can order smaller sizes of mesh at a reasonable price. Any mesh opening size you like.


Fantastic! Thanks Kathy. Hmmm, what to buy, what to buy....

I'm definitely going to get the 51 micron because Florida Aqua Farm's rotifer collector is 53 microns and that's the closest. This can be used if I want to keep larvae in the trap and feed them rotifers right then.

Plus, I will get 125 micron to hold in artemia for shrimp larvae. The Florida Aqua Farm's collector is 120. The closest smaller size is 83 and I don't won't to go that small .. I'm just going to take the risk that the 5 microns won't make a big difference.

Another way to buy mesh is to get silk screening. I've bought through ebay before and have gotten some great stuff. Here's one, for example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190107504190&rd=1&rd=1

The 55 micron screen always has lots of bidders so other people out there must be buying them for the same purpose. I gave up at $55.

clemenomea wrote:Wow-Great thread Amie! You may try contacting Florida Aqua Farms- I believe they sell mesh sheets if you request it. Otherwise there are some filter socks they sell in various micron sizes that you could cut up and use.

Do you think it would work to paste in two mesh sizes- one up to the water line of 53 micron, and one just a hair above the water line of 100 micons or so? That way if the first clogs water could spill out the second and perhaps still keep the fry in??? Just a thought- I am definitely going to try building one of these.

Cheers,
Tracy


I just looked through Florida Aqua Farms and didn't see any mesh for sale, but I sent them an email and will let you know if they respond back. I have cut up filter bags and used them and they work great.

As for the 2nd mesh idea, I don't think that would work. The pressure isn't strong enough to push the water up and over the water line. It just stops when it gets clogged and they can swim out back through the trap. If the pressure was that strong, they would be getting smashed against the mesh when they came into the trap - so you don't want that.

As for the trap getting clogged, it doesn't happen in just one night (unless your tank is really dirty). Sometimes I will leave mine in because I'm catching shrimp and they didn't hatch the night I thought they would. But, I am starting to put the airline on a timer so it's not running during the day. Plus, you can take the bottle section off, run it under the faucett and put it back on to reuse for the next night.

spk wrote: There are two open pipes, whihc one do you put the air into? The one that is open both ends?

Yep, the one that is open at the bottom. Put the airline hose about 1/8-1/4" up from the bottom and clamp it at the top so it holds. I mark it with a magic marker at the top so I know if it's slipped. I also use a rigid hose into the pipe instead of just airline hose, but this doesn't matter, either works.

Umm, fish? wrote:I've also used wedding dress liner material sold at fabric stores (all nylon or all polyester). The only problem is that you don't know the mesh size.


This doesn't work for holding in food, but for catching stuff it's great - I also make carbon and phosphate bags out of this stuff.

Okay, I think that covers the questions. I'm glad you guys are interested in the trap because I was so excited when it worked so well for me. Even if you don't want to use it as your sole source of catching larvae, it's worth setting up while you are catching by hand - it can catch the strays that you miss. Or, leave it up after you are done catching, and it may catch a few more through the night.

Next time I see a silk screen mesh that's 53 microns on ebay, I'll see if anyone wants to go in on it because I can never afford the price it sells for, but they always sell it in 10' increments and it's 4' wide.
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Postby "Umm, fish?" » Sun May 20, 2007 12:20 am

This doesn't work for holding in food, but for catching stuff it's great - I also make carbon and phosphate bags out of this stuff.


I beg to differ. I've tested some of the dress liner (not veil) material and it would hold water indefinitely. I tested it with a rubber band around a glass full of water held upside down over another glass overnight and lost no water. That would certainly hold in food. :) They make the stuff in a lot of different thicknesses and it's really cheap, so it's worth testing it out.
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Postby spk » Sun May 20, 2007 10:04 am

Amie,

Thanks for the reponse. For those that know me by now through other posts, DIY - to means Don't Involve Yourself. So I am a bit slow on the DIY side.

As a result, I have one further question with regard to the coke bottle end. Could you please tale a couple of close up's of that end some time. Is that end a push fit or is it glued? Ok, I re-read this post and it does sound as if the coke bottle is glued. Justg a sanity check for me.

Thanks

Steve
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Re:

Postby Amie » Sun May 20, 2007 1:09 pm

"Umm, fish?" wrote:I beg to differ. I've tested some of the dress liner (not veil) material and it would hold water indefinitely. I tested it with a rubber band around a glass full of water held upside down over another glass overnight and lost no water. That would certainly hold in food. :) They make the stuff in a lot of different thicknesses and it's really cheap, so it's worth testing it out.


Wow, I had no idea - obviously. I was thinking of bridal veil (as you pointed out). Are you looking at satin? Taffeta? I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
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