How to raise A.ocellaris

How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:18 am

Larvae rearing tank is a 10G (40L) tank with dimensions of 51cmx32cmx29cm (LxWxH) and water height of 25cm. The tank is dived into two compartments.

Post hatching, larvae are trapped and scooped out of display tank and placed in rearing tank compartment with 6 - 12cm High water (5 - 10L), air stone under heater and heater set to 27 degrees C.

I now even tried to switch 5w CFL light on post hatching and feed immediately, but had no success.

Larvae keep dying 1 day post hatch.

They start by sinking, darting up and sinking again in the water column. Later they start swimming in circles and most die to the bottom of larvae rearing tank within the afternoon.

My broodstock tank and larvae tank water has 0.2 ppm Nitrite as i use broodstock tank water for larvae transfer.

I culture nanno and s train rotifer.

I do not tint the larvae tank water green.

I strain rotifer in mid air and notice some float at water surface once added to rearing tank.

Larvae tank 1.024 SG
Rotifer 1.014SG
Nanno 1.014SG

Please advise me on my short comings.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:27 am

Any advise will be appreciated. Please help me.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:59 pm

Where is everyone?
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:42 pm

My problem was the nitrite and the challenge is to keep the water quality in spec. I now managed to get six larvae to 4Dph. My most larvae and second longest period.

Will I benefit by replacing a normal airstone with a sponge filter in my 25l roti bucket?
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Luis A M » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:58 pm

NO2 is not a concern in SW.Do they die during the 1st night?.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:57 am

no, they used to make it to the first afternoon and start spinning till they die. I hear what you say about NO2, it must be NH3 then because now when i see them spinning i do a 50% water change and then they come right. Please take note i only do a water change and i dont adjust the light. That tells me it is the water quality because if there is NO2 then there must be NH3.

I will get this right because i have 6 larvae now on day 7. My longest was 10days so i am hoping to beat my record.

I want to get a few through and then i will build my new larvae system.


Will I benefit by replacing a normal airstone with a sponge filter in my 25l roti buckets?
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Luis A M » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:01 pm

No,I don´t think that would work.Typically,when NH3 begins to show,you start with system water circulation and the problem is gone. :wink:
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby JulioC » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:38 am

How many nests have your pair laid?

I´ve found that first nests have weak larva.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:34 am

JulioC wrote:How many nests have your pair laid?

I´ve found that first nests have weak larva.


Black pair - 13 nests(my complete ownership).

Orange pair - 35 nests(Two during my ownership).

I am getting the knack of rearing the larvae now.

I am experiencing small nest sizes with my A.Ocellaris broodstock. I feed them 4 times a day by hand and auto feeder.I currently have the following choices to feed:

Ocean nutrition
Formula one flakes - http://www.oceannutrition.com/?post=formula-one-flakes
Formula two pellets - http://www.oceannutrition.com/?post=formula-two-pellets

RUTO frozen fishfood
Mysis - http://www.ruto.nl/ruto-english/images/ ... gguide.pdf

Campcon
Bloodworm - http://www.campcon.co.za/photo_gallery/ ... d?pid=1387

I ordered the following today:

Ocean nutrition
Frozen Formula One - http://www.oceannutrition.com/?post=formula-one
Frozen Brine Shrimp Plus - http://www.oceannutrition.com/?post=fro ... s%E2%84%A2
Frozen super shrimp - http://www.oceannutrition.com/?page_id=58

Seachem
Seachem vitality - http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... ality.html

Will the new order solve my problems and what other recommendations do you have?

Here is a link to the website of my largest supplier: http://www.aquariumdepot.co.za/aquarium ... gories.asp
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby JulioC » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am

You should wait. Even 13 nest is enought black are more difficult.

Feed them 4/5 times a day.

What is the aspect of the eggs when they lay? Strong orange or palid?
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:03 pm

JulioC wrote:You should wait. Even 13 nest is enought black are more difficult.

Feed them 4/5 times a day.

What is the aspect of the eggs when they lay? Strong orange or palid?


I feed flakes four times a day with auto feeder. Other foods such as pellets and frozens are fed when thought of, but pellets are fed at least once a day by hand.

A.ocellaris Black pair: strong orange eggs.
A.ocellaris Orange pair: Strong orange eggs plus some opaque eggs.

* THE NEST SIZES ARE UNPREDICTABLE: SOME TIMES MANY EGGS, SOME TIMES FEW EGGS AND SOMETIMES EGGS DISAPPEAR OVER A FEW DAYS.

LFS says maybe it is stress from water quality as i am sometimes so over eager to breed that i over feed and even cause a nitite build up where by i must do 50% water changes per day for a few days in a row to get it down. SG never changes as i have a ATU and temp doesnt move much.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Amie » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:09 am

Jclaas wrote:I strain rotifer in mid air and notice some float at water surface once added to rearing tank.



1. Can you please explain this to me...it is something you posted in your very first post. If the rotifers are taken out of water for too long, they will end up floating on top of the water surface and the fish larvae can not reach them.

2. How many rotifers do you have in the water? Do you have phytoplankton in the water as well? Are the rotifers gutt-loaded?

3. Also, do you leave a light turned on the first night, after the larvae have hatched?

4. If I were you, I would not change the water when they are only a day or two old. You would be better off by adding additional water. In other words, start with the tank 1/2 full, then drip more water in the tank every day.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:34 am

Amie wrote:
Jclaas wrote:I strain rotifer in mid air and notice some float at water surface once added to rearing tank.



1. Can you please explain this to me...it is something you posted in your very first post. If the rotifers are taken out of water for too long, they will end up floating on top of the water surface and the fish larvae can not reach them.

2. How many rotifers do you have in the water? Do you have phytoplankton in the water as well? Are the rotifers gutt-loaded?

3. Also, do you leave a light turned on the first night, after the larvae have hatched?

4. If I were you, I would not change the water when they are only a day or two old. You would be better off by adding additional water. In other words, start with the tank 1/2 full, then drip more water in the tank every day.


1. I changed my method by placing the sieve inside jug with shallow water while sieving the rotifer and then place the rotifer inside the larvae tank without allowing the rotifer to meet air.
2. It is difficult to tell you how many rotifers i have in the water as i am awaiting my magnifying loupe. I do not allow larvae to swim more than one length to spot a rotifer. No phytoplankton in water as my culture crashed. I gut fill them with an artificial diet 30 min prior to feeding larvae.
3. yes the light is on 24/7.
4. I will try that thank you.

*My phytoplankton recently crashed and as a result my rotifer density dropped. The phytoplankton is one week old now. It is slowly but surely (which i believe), adjusting to my conditions as it is not going rape rapidly yet.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Amie » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:02 am

Jclaas wrote:1. I changed my method by placing the sieve inside jug with shallow water while sieving the rotifer and then place the rotifer inside the larvae tank without allowing the rotifer to meet air.


great.

Jclaas wrote:2. It is difficult to tell you how many rotifers i have in the water as i am awaiting my magnifying loupe. I do not allow larvae to swim more than one length to spot a rotifer. No phytoplankton in water as my culture crashed. I gut fill them with an artificial diet 30 min prior to feeding larvae.

*My phytoplankton recently crashed and as a result my rotifer density dropped. The phytoplankton is one week old now. It is slowly but surely (which i believe), adjusting to my conditions as it is not going rape rapidly yet.


I assume that you know this, but rotifers are only as good as their last meal...which is why you are feeding them before putting them in the tank with the larvae. The problem is, if your phytoplankton crashed, and you are not putting any phyto in the tank with the larvae (and rotifers), the rotifers quickly become empty shells again, lacking nutrients that the larvae need. Plus, the rotifers that have not been eaten by the larve, will soon die of starvation if there is not a food source in the water column to keep them alive. Their dead bodies start decaying in the water, and the water quality gets out of control.

The biggest challenge, in my opinion, to raising clownfish is learning how to raise the live food. Think of it this way, you have to master the bottom of the food chain first, then work your way up. The bottom of the food chain is the phytoplankton, next, comes the rotifers, then the nauplii brine shrimp. Then comes the fish larvae.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:06 am

Amie wrote:
Jclaas wrote:1. I changed my method by placing the sieve inside jug with shallow water while sieving the rotifer and then place the rotifer inside the larvae tank without allowing the rotifer to meet air.


great.

Jclaas wrote:2. It is difficult to tell you how many rotifers i have in the water as i am awaiting my magnifying loupe. I do not allow larvae to swim more than one length to spot a rotifer. No phytoplankton in water as my culture crashed. I gut fill them with an artificial diet 30 min prior to feeding larvae.

*My phytoplankton recently crashed and as a result my rotifer density dropped. The phytoplankton is one week old now. It is slowly but surely (which i believe), adjusting to my conditions as it is not going rape rapidly yet.


I assume that you know this, but rotifers are only as good as their last meal...which is why you are feeding them before putting them in the tank with the larvae. The problem is, if your phytoplankton crashed, and you are not putting any phyto in the tank with the larvae (and rotifers), the rotifers quickly become empty shells again, lacking nutrients that the larvae need. Plus, the rotifers that have not been eaten by the larve, will soon die of starvation if there is not a food source in the water column to keep them alive. Their dead bodies start decaying in the water, and the water quality gets out of control.

The biggest challenge, in my opinion, to raising clownfish is learning how to raise the live food. Think of it this way, you have to master the bottom of the food chain first, then work your way up. The bottom of the food chain is the phytoplankton, next, comes the rotifers, then the nauplii brine shrimp. Then comes the fish larvae.



Thank you for your information, it is highly appreciated.

What i don't like is the fact that i once had a phyto culture that was doing so well that i hardly had to fertilize it and it would just keep growing and eventually it crashed and i did not keep a spare. So now i will keep a spare.

Does anyone experience the fact that phyto cultures initially take a while to get accustomed to your new conditions and may take as long as two weeks?
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:41 am

#update, I am currently busy with my most successful batch black ocellaris. I only lost 5 and will more than likely not lose any more. Today is 11DPH. They are forming their middle strip now.

The broodstock are misbar and so far i can only see misbar juveniles.
Does anyone have experience with misbar broodstock forming natural clowns?
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Luis A M » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:42 pm

There are two kinds of misbars:non genetic (or epigenetic) are produced by some cultural conditions and might not be passed to the offspring.
Extreme misbars,like in picassos and other fancy strains are genetic and thus transmitted.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:30 pm

Luis A M wrote:There are two kinds of misbars:non genetic (or epigenetic) are produced by some cultural conditions and might not be passed to the offspring.
Extreme misbars,like in picassos and other fancy strains are genetic and thus transmitted.


I am experiencing the opposite of ORA with a rarity in natural fish and a common occurrence of mis bar offspring in my black clowns. This will stay this way until i can try many different things. I must add that all my fish receive the same husbandry and my orange clowns produce natural offspring. Almost as if the black clowns have a genetic miss baring capability. At the end of the day many hobbyists and myself still enjoy watching mis bar fish. I have two particularly awesome black juveniles which ive kept back from a previous batch. They have a head bar, saddle by the dorsal fin and no tail stripe :).

Luis how is your clown breeding going?
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Luis A M » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:17 pm

"Epigenetic"missbarring come and go and is believed to be related with unknown rearing conditions.Yes,I heard that Darwins produce more misbars.But the wild clown most frequently misbarred is the GSM.And I found a very unusual thiellei with a midbar :shock:
I keep breeding clowns,the sight of a tankful of babies is so rewarding!.And I am still the only breeder in the area,AFAIK.Some day some other breeders will show and the price of baby clowns will drop.Then I will quit breeding clowns.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:38 am

Luis A M wrote:"Epigenetic"missbarring come and go and is believed to be related with unknown rearing conditions.Yes,I heard that Darwins produce more misbars.But the wild clown most frequently misbarred is the GSM.And I found a very unusual thiellei with a midbar :shock:
I keep breeding clowns,the sight of a tankful of babies is so rewarding!.And I am still the only breeder in the area,AFAIK.Some day some other breeders will show and the price of baby clowns will drop.Then I will quit breeding clowns.


Is the breeding your full time activity ? You are lucky to have such a large market. In my area we have three types of breeders: 1.Those who raise a few today and nothing tomorrow, 2. Those who see others breeding, want to start breeding and eventually stop supporting breeders (sometimes even a LFS) & 3. Those who have high numbers.
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:08 am

How old is your oldest breeding pair ??
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Luis A M » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:23 pm

Jclaas wrote:Is the breeding your full time activity ? You are lucky to have such a large market. In my area we have three types of breeders: 1.Those who raise a few today and nothing tomorrow, 2. Those who see others breeding, want to start breeding and eventually stop supporting breeders (sometimes even a LFS) & 3. Those who have high numbers.

No,it is a hobby.Local market is not large.Sometimes I must wait with unsold stocks.And now CB clowns are coming from Asia... :evil:
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Luis A M » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:49 am

Jclaas wrote:How old is your oldest breeding pair ??

I keep two pairs since 1998,A.frenatus and A.ocellaris.Still spawning well. :D
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Jclaas » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:27 am

Luis A M wrote:
Jclaas wrote:Is the breeding your full time activity ? You are lucky to have such a large market. In my area we have three types of breeders: 1.Those who raise a few today and nothing tomorrow, 2. Those who see others breeding, want to start breeding and eventually stop supporting breeders (sometimes even a LFS) & 3. Those who have high numbers.

No,it is a hobby.Local market is not large.Sometimes I must wait with unsold stocks.And now CB clowns are coming from Asia... :evil:


It is most upsetting that you must wait with unsold stocks and that LFS are supporting the Asians above local breeders. Do you use a way to stop the spawning until you are ready or do you leave the fish as is?
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Re: How to raise A.ocellaris

Postby Luis A M » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:11 pm

Welcome to the world of business :twisted:
No,I just don´t pull the nests when I dont want to raise them.
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