Enrichment discussion

Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby seafarm » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:47 pm

Randy Reed, Vendor - Reed Mariculture (Instant Algae, Reef Nutrition, Rotifers, Copepods, Otohime, ClorAm-X)
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Suzy » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:41 pm

I ordered the rotigrow and the omega green, but I only use the rotigrow....
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby EasterEggs » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:43 pm

Thanks for the link Randy, but that doesn't really clarify. It seems like one could replace the other.

I ordered RotiGrow Nanno (for in rotifer culture tank), RotiGreen Nanno (for in larval tanks), N-Rich PL Plus (to enrich rotifers), Otohime B1 (for weaning), and live L-type rotifers (duh lol). I hope that's all I need! I will eventually need to get my paws on some SS rotifers when the Mandarins start breeding, but I think those rotifers will eat the same thing.
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Suzy » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:10 pm

Yes, they will.

Are you going to add the nano green to the larval tanks all by itself, or with some ammonia remover? I got the omega green to add to the larval tanks but I am nervous. Sometimes too much dead cells can cause an ammonia spike?
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby EasterEggs » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:12 pm

I have been looking at ammonia products. I currently use Prime, and notice that it isn't mentioned on here much. Maybe cost since it is in liquid form? ClorAm-X seems to be all everyone talks about, but a 5lb bucket of dry powder...isn't that like a lifetime supply? :lol: Is that pretty standard then, dose ammonia product along with the rotifer foods?
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Scottt » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:27 pm

I'm not an expert, but I think they are the same thing (the Roti-Green-Nanno, and Roti-Grow-Nanno). Although it is possible they are different densities? I know the old product, the Nanno-3600, had a slightly higher dry-algae mass than the new Roti-Grow-Nanno. I am thinking the Grow/Green-Nanno is just branding, so one knows they can use it for either application?

We use the Roti-Green-Omega for our larval tanks. It is pretty clean, and has a nice balance of Nanno and Iso and such so I know the rotifers will be nutritious. When I use straight nanno for my greenwater, sometimes I end up with flared-gills due to the DHA deficiency. Although, if the larvae density is high enough, and they eat the rotifers up really quick, I can add enough N-rich'd rotifers that the nanno greenwater would suffice. Another trick that worked for me was to add small amounts of Roti-Grow-Plus to the larval water if I was using a pure-Nanno greenwater. It seemed to do the same thing as the Roti-Green-Omega (Although I trust Reeds calculations are better than mine).

On the Ammonia Topic, I hear a lot of people who do use ammonia removers in the larval tanks. I personally have never tried. I go with dripped in water changes instead (day 3-10).

This is an example of a typical roti-green'd up larval tank for us.
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Suzy » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:21 am

Scottt wrote:I'm not an expert,


Ummm, no. You are! I have been reading your posts. You really are!

So, you use enough to color the water? I put just a few drops in because I am afraid of the ammonia spike. It is still a dead cell, right?

Obviously, it is working for you!

Is the tank just bare bottom and no filtration?
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby EasterEggs » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:19 pm

Thanks for the great reply Scottt! And the photo...I didn't think a person would make it so green when a dead product is used. I am surprised, so that is good to know! I will be doing the drip in waterchanges as well.

There is a price difference between RGrow Nanno and RGreen Nanno so I was assuming there was added DHA to the RGreen Nanno and that is why the difference in naming, but maybe not...? I wish it was more clear on the Reed website!

From the site: "RotiGreen Nanno balances DHA/EPA with ARA to optimally nourish fish and maintain the health of rotifers."

Also: "[RotiGrow Nanno] provides the highest biomass conversion rate of our products, with the least organic waste in the tank, and gives a high EPA and ARA pre-enrichment boost for use with high DHA-enrichment protocols."
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Scottt » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:46 pm

I know what you mean about it being hard to know exactly what their algaes are. I'm not sure the specifics there, but know they work well. The algae they produce stay suspended in the water column just like live algae. I think they do a good job keeping the algae cells intact when processing them. This way they don't really break down much?

It is all dead algae. But I don't have any issues. I've read various theories on the subject, but I don't think ammonia is too bad for a larvae. One could use an ammonia neutralizer if they felt otherwise though. Rotifer respiration creates ammonia, larval digestion/respiration. I'm sure with time the algae breaks down and turns to ammonia too. But most of it gets eaten by the rotifers, keeping them nutritious, and being directly converted to ammonia through respiration (I think inverts excrete ammonia like a fish does?).

Speaking of ammonia, I tested my rotifer cultures a few months back. When doing high-density production (I think we do ~1,000,000 per 5gal bucket), ammonia levels are ridiculous even with 25% daily water changes. Although, I still don't add ammonia remover :p. It was off the chart on the cheezy little test kit. So one thing I always recommend is to seive rotifers before adding them to anything, be it a larval tank or a reef. The water they are grown in is not something one wants.

That is a bare bottom no filtration larval tank with an air-stone and a heater. We used them up until a few weeks ago. They work perfectly. One just has to do water changes manually. We just finished a larval system like others show pics of on around here. It just makes the WC's easier, as one gets a very slow constant change of water with a sump.

Sorry for all the babbling. Ohh, and a side note: Live algae is always better, it's just annoying for me to grow. The reed stuff seems to work exactly the same as live algae for me, so I use it.
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby EasterEggs » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:51 pm

Oh you "babble" on all you want! I enjoy reading your informative posts!

Maybe Randy will come back and let us know the difference between the RGrow Nanno and RGreen Nanno...just sounds like added DHA to the Green to me, but ...?
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Suzy » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:37 pm

Scott, if it works, and it obviously does for you, not growing live is great! But, how do you see the larvae to not suck them up during your water change?
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Scottt » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:24 pm

Suzy wrote:Scott, if it works, and it obviously does for you, not growing live is great! But, how do you see the larvae to not suck them up during your water change?


Good point there suzy. I do water changes when the rotifers have cleared the algae. Usually by morning the rotifers have cleared all the algae out of the water. I siphon/water change and then re-dose the algae. I don't do water changes every day, and I don't siphon every day either. A vacuum like FAF sells helps also, but not perfectly.
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Luis A M » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:55 pm

Scott,it is true that fish excrete NH3 thru their gills,but that is not the respiration process,which only produces CO2 :wink:
Any of IA products works about the same,at least for the short time needs of clown rearing.I am still using Nano 3600.
For some reason,these pastes don´t deteriorate easily and don´t produce NH3 spikes.
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby seafarm » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:19 pm

We've done a really poor job of differentiating between the products. Everybody is confused :( Here is the quick answer:

Nanno 3600 and RotiGrow Nanno have NO DHA.

RotiGrow Plus has enough DHA that for many applications it can be used as an all-in-one feed and enrichment - no secondary enrichment needed. However it has so much oil that it doesn't work well for greenwater technique - it can form an oil slick on the surface.

RotiGreen is for greenwater technique. It has a bit of DHA, not enough to enrich, but enough to help maintain enrichment.

N-Rich is for fish that have very high DHA requirments, or for people that are using Nanno only products to grow their rotifers and need a quick enrichment.
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby EasterEggs » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:02 pm

Thanks Randy! That really clarifies it! I think I am ok with the order I placed then. I decided I will just place a second order when the TDO is available as I have clown eggs I would like to start collecting. =]
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby Suzy » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:07 am

Yes! Thank you! Is the RotiGreen omega clean enough for green water technique?
If I enrich and grow the rotifers with RotiGrow Plus?
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby EasterEggs » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:17 pm

I'm wondering the same thing too Suzy. I plan to raise the rotifers on RotiGrow Nanno and enrich with N-Rich PL Plus. I'm not sure if RotiGreen Nanno or RotiGreen Omega would be the better choice for green water.
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Re: Enrichment discussion

Postby EasterEggs » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:29 pm

Suzy, my supplier talked to Randy on the phone yesterday to place his (and my) order and Randy said the RotiGreen Omega is clean enough for green water, so I ordered it instead of the plain Nanno.
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