Random lfs wipeouts.

Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby rkelman » Sat May 15, 2010 10:39 pm

I've been having some of my customers lose entire batches of my fish within a week of receiving them. It only happens once in a while. It looks / acts like brook. They say they get other tank bred fish in and they are fine. Is there something I should be doing to raise their immunity to brook (or whatever it is) ? Any help / advice would be appreciated. Its very costly to replace fish. I don't have any issue with them here so its something they are being exposed to in their tanks.
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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby FuEl » Sat May 15, 2010 11:33 pm

Could be Mycobacterium or Aeromonas? These could cause "slime" appearance on fish. Usually due to water quality issues.
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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby rkelman » Sun May 16, 2010 5:58 am

They die within a couple days so whatever it is its quick and very aggressive. When it happens every fish dies. Whatever the cause I'm the one that loses. When all the other fish in the system are fine but mine its hard to argue its not my fish...
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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby KathyL » Sun May 16, 2010 9:04 am

You can and should argue that its not your fish if your fish at home are good. Anytime your fish are exposed to wild caught clownfish, they are vulnerable to whatever they are carrying. Your stores need to set up a nanno or other system separate from their wild caught clowns. That said, when this has happened with my fish, I always replace the losses, just to keep the customer. I don't replace if they will put them into the same system that killed the others.
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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby Clownfish75 » Sun May 16, 2010 9:52 am

this is one fo the great joys of lousy wild caught fish.

Many pathogens cause white slime on clownfish, currently i dont know of any really good way to fix it aside from if the customer is any good with fish they wont mix them with wild ones.

one thing you can tell the customers, a formalin bath followed by a freshwater bath will likely do the trick.

If your keen get osme of the sickies back and get them tested, but this is all dollars.

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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby spawner » Sun May 16, 2010 11:48 am

rkelman wrote:I've been having some of my customers lose entire batches of my fish within a week of receiving them. It only happens once in a while. It looks / acts like brook. They say they get other tank bred fish in and they are fine. Is there something I should be doing to raise their immunity to brook (or whatever it is) ? Any help / advice would be appreciated. Its very costly to replace fish. I don't have any issue with them here so its something they are being exposed to in their tanks.



Your producing them and sending them to shops? Shipping them or delivering them?

We use to run into this issue as well once and a while. Most of the time it was responsive to formalin treatments. I always felt that it was the producer's fish being stressed from shipping. This particular producer generally had problems with disease out breaks in the spring time as temperature increased in their facility. This is when I noticed our issues as well. But it could have been from naive fish being exposed to wild fish, but again I think it is a stress related issue. Could be handling that is causing it as well. Netting them out, acclimatization, increased temperatures in shipping, all this leads to stress, which leads to decreased immune function.
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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby rkelman » Sun May 16, 2010 9:39 pm

Thanks for the replies.

Kathy. I agree whatever is killing them is in their systems not mine. Its hard to argue its not my fish when there are other CB clowns in the same system that didn't die though. I had one guy ask me if I do enough water changes... ugh. If they had any idea how much water I change.. I didn't know if there was a way to boost the immunity of our fish.. I know many store owners won't want to start a stand alone system just for my fish. Perhaps I could talk them into a bta / clown display...

Christian: Yes WC fish clowns are a pain. Most stores here don't carry them thank goodness.

Spawner: I'm delivering them to the shops in a bucket with an air pump / heater. You could be on to something with it being stress related. Perhaps there are things I can do to minimize the stress to them. Slower acclimation up to sellable salinity etc

Thanks again for all the advice.
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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby spawner » Sun May 16, 2010 9:47 pm

My thoughts are that your fish are stress, and have a reduced immune function. Your feeding several times per day? Then the shops are feeding once?
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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby rkelman » Sun May 16, 2010 10:01 pm

But all fish are stressed when transported right? I would think being shipped in a box for days would be much more stressful than the few hours they are in the bucket. I feed my sellable sized fish once a day. The others get fed 3 times a day.
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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby gpsmart » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:03 pm

I had a similar problem to this about 18 months ago. The fish would start to look sick after about 2 days and would be dead by about 5 days. It only happened in 2 shops and we solved the problem in one of those by putting them in quarantine for a week before putting them into the shop tanks. The other shop didn't appear particularly interested in solving the problem and I don't supply them any more. Interestingly they quarantined one batch of sick fish and a reasonable amount of them recovered so they put them back in the shop tanks and they all got sick again and died. None of my other customers have any issues like this.

I did have 3 fish direct from my tanks and 3 sick fish from one of the shops tested by the Western Australian Department of Fisheries, Fish Health Section and a summary of the report follows:

Sick Fish - Excessive mucus on gills and skin
No parasites were found
Had not been feeding
1 had severe swim bladder infection

Fish Direct from my tanks had no significant lesions or parasites

Abdomen swab of fish with swim bladder infection produced a pure growth of the bacteria Vibrio harveyi
Abdominal swab of fish from my tanks produced no bacterial growth

Diagnosis - Probable bacterial septicaemia

Comment - Vibrio harveyi is a common pathogen of marine aquatic animals. It is often found in sea water and can be harmless but also produces severe disease in some instances. The most likely cause of the problem is something about the physico-chemical properties of the water in the aquarium shops because it is reported that no other fish in the same water are becoming sick.

I know this doesn't really give a definative answer but at least it provides some extra information.

Just one last note. The shop that provided me with the sick fish for testing completely changed their marine section and I now don't have any problems and still supply them currently. The other shop did, at one stage, a complete clean out of their marine system. I supplied a batch of clowns which were fine but the problem returned with the next batch.

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Re: Random lfs wipeouts.

Postby rkelman » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:45 pm

That was very informative thank you Graham. That is pretty much what I was thinking. Its very strange other fish are more resistant than mine but I guess if they are in the system and the bacteria increases gradually I suppose they would gain a resistance. Thanks again for the info.
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